M1911 vs. M9

The Sight M1911-A1 ^ | unknown | unattributed

[Dawgsquat]

Cool! I never got into competition, bet it's a blast. My Daly has the Videcki speed trigger, beveled mag well and commander hammer. Next to your "cadillac" though, mine's a "Ford".

[beowolf]

I understand the loose-tolerance GI ones were very reliable with ball, though...

LOL!!! Hell, we used to shake them just to hear them rattle...but, they always fired when you wanted them to, and the bullet always went pretty close to where it was supposed to!-)

[Wm Bach]

And this is of scintillating interest to FReepers generally, exactly HOW?

And a member since 1998 doesn't yet know that we Freepers love our guns, exactly HOW? Talk about wandering into the wrong forum.

[45Auto]

No, this question will never be settled, but its all in good fun, in my opinion.

I own several 1911's, including a ParaOrdnance 'fat body' which I built from the frame up. I also own the close cousin of the M9, the Beretta Model 96 in .40 S and W. Both guns are good, solid tools which will perform as intended. But if I had to choose, I would choose the 1911.

The Beretta can be a little tempermental. I like to shoot the little 155 grain lead semiwadcutters in the Beretta and with that bullet jamming was a real problem due to the feeding characteristics of the bullet configuration. I solved that problem by CAREFULLY opening up the throat just enough to feed reliably, but not so much as to cause the loaded round to be unsupported by the chamber. The .40 is a high-pressure round, and over-zealous chamber throating is not recommended for any gun in that caliber. Even after that minor adjustment, the gun would still jam after about 50-100 rounds. The problem is that when the breech face gets dirty from powder residue, the case head of the next round will not slide nicely in place with the rim neatly behind the extractor. I sort of solved this by carefully polishing the breech face. Its good for about 100 - 150 rounds before I have to clean the breech face.

The 1911 , on the other hand, will shoot 500 - 600 rounds without a good cleaning if the feed ramp and breech face are polished. The one thing I cannot get used to about the Berreta in a combat situation is the transition between the first and second shot after the holster draw; that's because the first shot is double-action and the follow-up shots are single action. The transition between first and second shots completely changes the ergonomics of the grip and the position of the trigger finger. Also, since the Beretta has a two-stage trigger pull in the single action mode, this transition between first and second shot is diffcult to master.

Unless our troops are really well-trained in the use of this unit, then I hope that when they have to use it in combat, that their intended targets are very close.

Other than that, I think I'd rather have 7 rounds of 230 grain .45 ball and three or four extra mags, than 15 rounds of 9 mm, although either caliber would be unpleasent on the receiving end....

[arly]

I'll stick with my Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP, In my opinion a 9mm just doesn't get it. We had a shooting in my home town about 2 yrs ago by local police (justified) the bad guy was hit 7 times in the chest with a 9mm before stopping him as a threat, and he lived. nuff said.

[Shooter 2.5]

The 9 MM doesn't have the bearing surface to be an inherently accurate cartridge. The M9 is rather large for small handed women fighters. I tried to use lead cartridges in a Taurus 92 and had one foot groups at 50 feet because of key-holing. In clean conditions it's very rare that a M9 will jam.

The Marines are building 789 1911's. They ordered 789 barrels, bushings and link pins from Nowlin Manufacturing plus sear springs, ejectors, firing pin stops, mainspring housings with springs. From Springfield Armory they ordered slides. from Cylinder and Slide, they bought hammer, sears and disconnectors. Ed Brown Products produced the beavertails and recoil guides while Novak is making the rear sights, Wilson is making the extracters and mag releases, King's is making the ambi-safeties. The maker of the frame is unknown.

[balrog666]

What, what, what? No Ruger .45 fans here but me?

[Wm Bach]

Shooting both the 1911 pattern and the Beretta (in .40 DAO) I find the .45 a better shooter, but more prone to hangups when using hollowpoints (need to have the ramp honed). The Beretta never balks, but the heavier trigger pull requires more attention and hence slower follow up shots.

[1Old Pro]

This was briefly discussed last nigh on the History channel....story of the gun top ten.

[Billthedrill]

Ah, the old debate! Well, I'm not exactly objective, having fired a 1911 for thirty-plus years, but I have fired the M9 and I do own a Glock 22 (.40 S&W). The M9 would be my third choice due to its caliber, but it seemed a good enough firearm, smooth, tackle easy to reach, a bit more difficult than the 1911 to combat-load IMHO but that's undoubtedly a practice issue. I wasn't as hot on the sights as I am on the Glock - I like the square rearsight border for fast acquisition. My old 1911 Combat Commander had a similar arrangement (my Kimber has target sights and doesn't come into this - they wouldn't be great combat sights because they are prone to catching on clothing and are all-black).

I really like the Glock for its power and durability. I'd carry it into a fight without much reservation, except that I still haven't really got the hang of the trigger when it comes to longer-range accuracy. I know it's a throw issue because it doesn't occur on the second shot, when I can "set" the trigger and it feels more like a 1911. Again, a practice matter.

But I'll take the weight and capacity disadvantages and still carry Mr. Kimber, put to the decision, not for any intrinsic advantage, although I really do believe that the slow, big bullet tends to leave more of its energy in its target than a faster one, where overpenetration is an issue. It's really just because it's what I've trained with; your mileage may vary. It really does devolve into practice, practice, practice, and then more practice.

Plus, of course, anyone preferring a 9mm to Mr. Browning's creation is a commie.

[Dawgsquat]

Good points being made by all. I've always wondered just how effective hollow points really are considering the lower velocity (which gives the ball ammo it's 'punch') of the 1911-A1. Can the ball ammo really be beat?

Rats! Gotta take the wife to the store. Back in a bit.

[glock rocks]

What, what, what? No Ruger .45 fans here but me?

i've got a P90dc. very reliable, too big for carry compared to the G30. put match sights on it,
hogue grips, polished the ramp. sturdy and sufficient. fun to shoot.

[Wm Bach]

He's just mad that this thread is Israel-Bashing free.

heh heh... Can't complain about Israel Military Industries' Desert Eagle either.

[Shooter 2.5]

" The Armed Forces have more than nominal firearms training,"

I'm going to disagree with you. The training the Armed Forces get is a joke. It is a disgrace. It is a national scandal. To illustrate my point, go to the army's website, www.goarmy.com and check out the guy who "qualified" on the rifle range. The poor guy looked like he was still shaking when he explained how he did.
That cop in Philly who shot the school kid in the head probably has more training than our guys in uniform.

[CapandBall]

1911.........................M1911

1911
M1911

And the differences?

OK, I confess I don't have the correct grips (diamond) on my 1911, and I replaced the grip saftey on the 1911 with the longer M1911 grip saftey, other than that both are "stock"...

[allthingsnew]

Question (forgive me if this is a dumb one): I read this article as saying that the .45 holds seven rounds. Does this mean that the "high capactity" magazine ban did not affect .45's? In other words, it didn't make any difference because none of them were made for "high capacity" magazines anyway? If not-- if there are .45's that will accept a so-called "high capactity" magazine-- are they desirable? Ought one go ahead and get one now, while there are still pre-ban magazines available? If so, which one?

[Shooter 2.5]

" I have a drop-in match barrel and compensator for the Glock "

Isn't it a shame you have to go back to the old barrel to shoot IDPA? I hate that.

[gnarledmaw]

Im a 1911 man, too. Mines a fixed up '51 Army issue, it never fails.

My problem with the Berettas, beyond the trigger pull/action issues, is that Ive never forgiven them for that little slide problem in the '80s. I like to think that my dollars go to companies that put me first in their business equation, a company thats has such poor quality control certainly didnt have my best interest in mind. There will likely never be a Baretta or S&W (yes, Im still boycotting them) in this house.

[Shooter 2.5]

Para-Ordinance was the first to introduce a high capacity 1911. They made frames first and then the complete P14. At the intrduction, the High cap mags were 50 dollars each. That was before the ban. I saw one for sale at 135 dollars. For my 1911's, I use Wilson 8 shot mags which gives me 9 shots without the large bulky mag housing. I believe Kimber makes a model that takes 10+1. You might look at that.