Posted on 02/02/2002 6:32:51 AM PST by Khepera
Heterosexuals reproduce...Homosexuals RECRUIT.
And how, exactly, does that negate the other point? It merely adds to it, so your "correction" indicates that you are double-minded about the whole issue. When they come for your kids (or grandkids), will you still sing the same tune? Somehow, I don't think so....
There is always the chance that the sinner (no matter how deeply he/she is engrained) can repent & shun the sin he/she was known for to follow Jesus. It is the acts that they are involved in that The Father AND Son EXPECT us to despise with all our minds, bodies, and souls.
It sounds to me as though you view the Christian Lifestyle as a set of "don'ts" and "Thou shalt nots", while the non-Chrisitan lifestyle is the fun way to live. How sad. Christianity is freedom, freedom from bondage to sin, freedom from condemnation for sin. Free to live as God intended people to live. Of course, non-Christians don't see themselves as being in bondage, they see Christians as being the bound-up ones. Another indication of how deceived they are. I don't agree with "forcing" Christian values on those who obviously don't want them, but on the other hand, Christians can't just turn a blind eye to the sin and bondage around us. Jesus came to preach liberation to the prisoners, life to the dead, salvation to the lost, and sight to the blind. Each of those things has both a literal and spiritual application. Non-Christians are "walking dead", "prisoners", "lost", and "blind". They don't see themselves that way, but God does, and it is His opinion which counts. It is our obligation, indeed our duty, to preach the Gospel to the lost, blind, dead prisoners, and as one saint put it, use words if necessary. In my opinion, if Christians would set the proper example, non-Christians would be begging to know how to be a part of such a rich, free, full life.
Certain drugs weren't made illegal until the 1930s, just as socialism was taking hold here in America. Before that, they weren't illegal (except for alcohol in some times and places due to Islamic laws IIRC), yet somehow humanity survived for thousands of years. How can that be?
I'll tell you. It's because before the government started rewarding people for their stupid and unproductive behavior by handing out "benefits" off the sweat of other people, drug abuse and excessive drunkenness were good ways to get yourself thrown out of your community and into the gutter. If no charitable soul helped you out of the goodness of their heart, and you didn't straighten up, you died. People saw that this wasn't a good way to end up, and so most of them avoided excessive indulgence in such things.
Now, these people look to government to hand them their livelihoods, if not on a silver platter at least with some rent subsidies and free cheese, and negative behavior has lost the consequenses that used to automatically come with the territory. Being the helpful entity that it is, the government, which caused the problem in the first place, said, "oh, no problem! Since we've eliminated the natural bad consequenses of these people's irresponsible behavior, we'll add on some new consequenses of our own and throw such people in prison". Great. So now we have the productive people paying, to shore up through "social benefits" people who behave irresponsibly, and also to build and staff the ever-expanding number of jails and prisons to lock those we deem "undesirable" away from polite society. Instead of government backing off from their policies that created the problem in the first place (which would reduce its scope and power, incidentally), it piled on yet more policies. And that's what they continue to do.
The whipsaw us back and forth, doling out the fruits of our labor first to the deadbeats, then to the law enforcement/court/prison/treatment system to chase after people and search for inanimate objects, while murderers, thieves and rapists run free and wreak mayhem. Perhaps having the real criminals loose is helpful to them, since they can be used to terrorize citizens into giving up even more loot and freedom, to be kept "safe" from them.
That's my view of it anyway. It's one of those vicious downward spiral things.
BTW, public intoxication should be illegal. That covers alcohol.
This, I don't have a problem with, unless it involves checkpoints rather than an observation of erratic behavior, to determine whether someone is intoxicated.
Thanks again for the polite discussion. I don't have time this morning but if I run across statistics that seem to refute some of the ones you've posted here, I'll send them your way.
Yes, it does. But the Bible is addressed to believers. You are well within your rights to preach hell fire and damnation to the unbelievers if you think that's the best way to go about it. But you have no authority or right to impose hell fire and damnation on the unbeliever in the here and now.
The Bible also calls for the death penalty for adultery.
And when Jesus comes to establish his theocracy, then I'm sure you'll be more that willing and ready to live that standard. The non-believers are under no such law and no such covenant. Common sense would tell them that such behavior is not to their benefit, but they're under no covenant to behave that way.
You're absolutely right on all counts here. But when Christians start advocating prison sentences for private behavior that affects no one else but other consenting non-believing adults, they have crossed the line. Nowhere in the scriptures are Christians told to go pass laws that will result in punishment for non-believers.
A very sizeable percentage of homosexuals are very averse to keeping their orientation and activity PRIVATE. They INSIST on rubbing it in others' faces and even in converting, recruiting. It's just a fact. They do. A lot of them do.
AND there's the issue that even X numbers of acting out people in any kind of rebellion against God will tend to influence spiritual dimensions in an area. That hurts everyone in the area.
Rebellion is never neutral. It always influences the community. Just because the cause/effect relationship is hard to draw is no proof it isn't there. This is true of arrogant preacers, angry Christian wives, alcoholic Christians, physically abusive Christians . . . and of homosexuals acting out as well--whether private or not.
Rebellion against the Designer arises partly out of an attitude. People don't take off and put on attitudes as they jump in or out of bed. Attitudes are underlying ways of being in the world. They have far reaching influence.
I'm not, per se, very given to supporting notions of heavy handed treatment of violators of a LOT of sins/laws. . . . in legally heavy duty ways.
I AM FOR STRONG MODELING OF BETTER WAYS OF BEING AND I'M FOR ASSERTIVE EXHORTATIONS IN FITTING WAYS AT FITTING TIMES. I'm also NOT for freely available advertising of rebellious activities. . . in much of any form. I think that's a kind of society suicide.
Except that in many ways, it's an infection Marxists have been supporting with tons of money for decades. . . at most higher centers of learning.
If they do anything that infringes upon the rights of others, including and especially with regard to minors, then they should be punished for that.
AND there's the issue that even X numbers of acting out people in any kind of rebellion against God will tend to influence spiritual dimensions in an area. That hurts everyone in the area.
Rebellion is never neutral. It always influences the community.
In which case those preaching in favor of accepting Christ and becoming a Christian should become even more vocal about the value of doing so. But I see no scriptural basis for encouraging Christians to pass laws making the activities of non-believing, non-covenant people illegal.
I am a bit torn. Some morality IS legislated. Stopping at red lights, for instance; not driving drunk.
But on the whole, the letter of the law kills. I think many Christians forget that. Modeling life in The Spirit is a much better way to go than run around beating people over the head with any law book--even God's.
You opinion is not one shared by God...He instituted Capital Punishment, and it was for more than just murder. You apparently think that things happen in a vacuum. This idea that private behavior and actions don't affect others is a cop-out, and a falsehood. The flaw in your logic is huge. What would happen if we didn't pass laws that punish non-believers? Are we to let non-believers go scot-free? To my knowledge, very few (if any) laws are specifically directed at a group of people called "non-believers". By your logic, laws are only for believers. That is dead wrong! Laws are for lawbreakers, not for law-abiding citizens. Laws are to control the lawless, not those who exercise self-control! We as Christians have an obligation to be salt and light in the world, and salt doesn't do any good unless it is outside the salt-shaker. We should be engaging the world at every point. Unfortunately, Christianity has pretty much abandoned the Arts, where we used to dominate and set the standard. Now, those who wish to engage and challenge the non-believing world in the Arts are shot at and criticized, and even called heretics by their own brethren! No, Christians are SUPPOSED to be involved in daily life, government, and other areas where we can make a positive impact. That's not imposing our beliefs on non-believers, that is doing what we can to make life better for all, the just and the unjust, just the same as God causes the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust.
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