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You Mean Hitler Wasn?t A Priest?
National Review Online ^ | Dave Shiflett

Posted on 01/21/2002 6:28:01 AM PST by VinnyTex

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To: Askel5
It's like beating a dead horse.

And do you know what ELSE is like beating a dead horse? Trying to teach anti-Catholic smear artists like Viva and faith_j the truth about the Catholic Church. They don't know because they don't want to know. Why would they want to interrupt a really good hate?

41 posted on 01/21/2002 11:33:49 AM PST by Petronski
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To: Askel5
re 30. How does the church justify politicans, who vote to fund abortion, receiving the sacraments?
43 posted on 01/21/2002 11:38:39 AM PST by breakem
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To: Faith_j
Great Britain had a state religion in 1929. Still has. What's your beef with the lateran treaty?
44 posted on 01/21/2002 11:41:39 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Faith_j
But please don't use your 'reason' (opinion) and call it a source. Its just not a fact.

Your second paragraph of article 8, which we just 'have to' read, doesn't say what you imply. Sorry about that 'facts' thing backfiring on you.

47 posted on 01/21/2002 11:48:20 AM PST by Petronski
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To: Viva La Homeschool; Faith_j; all
You know, it would really help Catholics like myself -who for political purposes regularly have to defend evangalicals like yourselves from charges you are hateful, mindless twits- if you wouldn't so regularly post posts which make you sound like, well, hateful, mindless twits.
48 posted on 01/21/2002 11:50:46 AM PST by AlguyA
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To: Faith_j
I'm against all state religions.

Be sure to ping me to your anti-anglican rant.

50 posted on 01/21/2002 12:03:29 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Askel5
Not that I would want to pit one group against another (heaven forfend!) but if any denomination shares blame for the anti-Semitism of Naziism it isn't Catholicism.

Hitler found quite fertile ground for his anti-Semitic poison in the majority Lutheran culture that was early 20th Century Germany.

51 posted on 01/21/2002 12:08:54 PM PST by Doctor Doom
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To: Faith_j
...I've been told...

If I start believing hearsay, they take away my lawyer card. Please cite which laws you want me to prove no longer exist. And also, please post examples of the language of these banned circulars. They could be anything from kindhearted goodwill to Jack Chick slanders. It would make a difference.

52 posted on 01/21/2002 12:10:13 PM PST by Petronski
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To: Faith_j
That was the point. I listed my sources and she couldn't argue my facts so she graded me down on my english structure. Even though I had just received an A+ for that structure from my English prof???
55 posted on 01/21/2002 12:32:06 PM PST by bray
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To: Faith_j
So you recognise Hislop as rubbish? That's a start.
56 posted on 01/21/2002 12:34:51 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
Be sure to ping me to your anti-anglican rant.

Lol ... aw, that was almost too easy.

I wonder if she's in favor of "faith-based" partnerships and US "Holy Wars" and our President's use of Scripture (from his "favorite philosopher") to found his decision to use already been killed human lives for federally funded research?

57 posted on 01/21/2002 12:57:21 PM PST by Askel5
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To: breakem; eastsider; campion; romulus
I don't think the Church EVER has justified, per se, a pro-abort's taking the sacraments.

I'm not up on the current movement to petition the Church to make a pro-abort stand (as taken by a public politician) grounds for excommunication so I can't really speak to the arguments they're using.

I do know that such a movement would unfair preclude the "religious" -- such as the radical nuns behind "Network" -- from being excommunicated as they are careful always to avoid the subject of abortion as they seek to influence the political views of ignorant faithful by selectively quoting from legitimate Catholic teaching.

My guess is that such partaking of the sacraments -- if truly in error due to the malformed conscience or ignorance of the Catholic -- is a case of "invincible ignorance". Where the Catholic is purposefully disobeying his conscience and the teaching of the Church both with respect to abortion AND the partaking of sacraments while under a cloud of grave or mortal sin ... I think the act could be described as "unlawful".

This is how a Mass would be treated if the priest took liberties with the liturgy clearly outside the precepts of the sacrifice. The Mass is still valid but is has been celebrated "unlawfully".

I suppose by this reasoning, one leaves room for the operation of the sacrament (affording the necessary graces by which a Catholic in error might right himself) but under a cloud of illicitness that attaches only to the Catholic himself, not the sacrament.

I'll bet one of the other more well-catechized Catholics might know better than I. So, I'm pinging Eastsider, Romulus and Campion for starters.

58 posted on 01/21/2002 1:07:15 PM PST by Askel5
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To: patent
I think the word you were looking for was not "silly", but "sick."

(Can you imagine the look on her face when she comes before the throne?)

59 posted on 01/21/2002 1:13:37 PM PST by Aristophanes
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To: Askel5
Thanx for the response and flagging others. I had read your earlier statement as meaning those who support abortion are excommunicated.
60 posted on 01/21/2002 1:16:17 PM PST by breakem
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