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CHILD SUPPORT As Theft (Disguised Alimony): The Feminist Idea Of Independence Is She Takes His Money
World Net Daily ^ | Debbie Schlussel

Posted on 01/20/2002 12:47:53 PM PST by DNA Rules

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To: pbmaltzman
Do prenuptial agreements stand up in court?

Well im actually from OZ so i wouldn't have a clue about the US and i'm not too sure about OZ either..... i think they do....... it is a contract after all......

61 posted on 01/20/2002 4:56:50 PM PST by enrg
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To: pbmaltzman
If a guy really wants no-consequence sex, maybe he should plan things a little better, and invest in condoms just to make sure.

Hell!!! with all the STD's floating around, its definetely worth planning (this mainly applies to the one-nighters tho)....... BUT this applies to women too.... not just men..... it seems that its always the man who has to practice "safe sex" or whatever u want to call it..... how about the women? It takes TWO to tango....

62 posted on 01/20/2002 5:04:47 PM PST by enrg
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To: DNA Rules
I stick by my comments. Those children have not been divorced and are to still have a father. It is just an excuse to not pay because of what the ex does with the money. All money goes in a pot and the daily costs for the children come out of the pot.

Fathers that chose to quit supporting their children because they don't like what a woman does with the money are still throwing their children to the wind. The children know and will always remember that their father did not care enough for them to see that funds were provided for their care. A horrible thing for children to learn and this is totally in the hands of the father to control.

I also know from experience since I never got funds for my child. My ex even laughed about the ruses that could be used to avoid paying support.

63 posted on 01/20/2002 5:59:28 PM PST by ClancyJ
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To: xm177e2
Common sense tends to be confined to states like Texas

*chuckle* Did you hear the screams down here when the "welfare-to-work" program went into effect?

64 posted on 01/20/2002 9:32:23 PM PST by LaineyDee
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To: xcon
I drive a 98 gran marquis ls, and it would look like your poor cousin's car in the housing projects lots.

Texas has gotten tough with the "welfare-to-work" program. You have 2 yrs to get it together before they kick you off. You can file again after a certain period of time... but I think there's a maximum of 5 yrs total lifetime assistance. You'd have to prove to be permanently disabled, to get any leeway or exception. No more generational welfare recipients! (not that some won't try to find "creative" ways to fool the State) :)

65 posted on 01/20/2002 9:42:19 PM PST by LaineyDee
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To: The Good Hunter

66 posted on 01/21/2002 12:14:30 AM PST by The Good Hunter
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To: enrg
Hell!!! with all the STD's floating around, its definetely worth planning (this mainly applies to the one-nighters tho)....... BUT this applies to women too.... not just men..... it seems that its always the man who has to practice "safe sex" or whatever u want to call it..... how about the women? It takes TWO to tango....

Yes, it does take two to tango. But in my experience, and in the experience of most of the other men and women I've talked with, a lot of men leave it all up to the women. That's why it was such a surprise to know two men who actually bought condoms and used them without being asked.

67 posted on 01/21/2002 12:24:31 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: enrg
Do prenuptial agreements stand up in court?

Well im actually from OZ so i wouldn't have a clue about the US and i'm not too sure about OZ either..... i think they do....... it is a contract after all......

To what country are you referring when you say "OZ"? Or are you referring to Kansas?

I have heard that sometimes prenups stand up in court and sometimes they do not.

68 posted on 01/21/2002 12:26:40 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: enrg
I am not enthusiastic about that route, from what I have heard, but then most women don't look for mates that way. I'm really tall, and don't have any inclination to find a husband from the Third World, unlike some American men who apparently find it just charming.

interesting that u say that........ I guess alot of nations could be classified as third world when compared to the US (in economic terms at least), but heres some interesting facts..... i can't remember the correct figures but the divorce rates in the US, Australia, Britain and a few other Western nations were a hell-of-alot higher then the "third world" nations, in some cases almost double..... maybe having nothing (economically) makes these people realise that money aint everything.... the people around you are...........

Yes, I have heard that from a friend of mine who was born in New Zealand but had lived in Australia for a time. He has commented that people in the States, in his experience, tend to treat each other more like commodities, and to be less loyal to each other, than in NZ or Australia. Since I have not lived there, I can't compare directly.

Some people claim that the greater economic independence of women in the West has contributed quite a bit to the higher divorce rates. I can believe it. One of the reasons I decided, early on in life, to get job skills was that I didn't want to emulate the marriage nightmare that my parents created. I didn't want to have to put up with a lot of emotional nightmare crap just because I was financially dependent on a husband who turned out to be like my father. So were I ever to marry, it probably would not be for money. LOL.

Now since im from a country that could be classified as third world (well my parents are anyway, but they brought their way of life with them, and passed it on to me), i can tell u that their tends to be more of a family bond in these "third world" families than in most western families (please excuse the classifications, i can't think of a better way)..... this is what i believe contributes to the lower divorce rates in non-western nations.......... There just seems to be a greater sense of "community" in these "third world" people.......

Some of those nations also practice arranged marriages, which may have longevity going for them, but I don't think it would go over very well in the West. At least, most people I know whose families have been here for several generations or more are horrified by the practice.

i may be wrong but this is what i've seen with my own two eyes so, thats all i can really base this on.....

It would be interesting to see how Westernized your family would be here after several generations... to see how closely they stayed with the cultural attributes which they brought with them.

I work for an Armenian guy, and used to live in a part of L.A. County which was heavily populated by Armenians. Some of them still do the arranged marriage thing. A couple of young Armenian women have told me that they are expected to obey the man they marry.

But my boss's sister is a sort of maverick in her family... Although they are first-generation immigrants, his sister married not an Armenian but a Filipino man, divorced him, and later lived with an Armenian guy without being married to him. And although she sends her kids to an Armenian school because she doesn't want them to become "too Americanized," in truth she is doing a lot of things just like an American woman, and in another couple of generations, her descendants may be indistinguishable from other assimilated Americans.

It's true that most American women don't expect to obey a man, as women did some generations back. I sure as heck know the difference between cooperation and obedience, and I would expect a man to know it too. Maybe that's too "uppity" for some men. But I will never marry someone jsut so I can have a roof over my head... the non-financial cost is too high, IMO.

69 posted on 01/21/2002 12:42:09 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: pbmaltzman; anamensis;gussiedup;roballen;laineydee
Thanks you all for the comments, I try not to discuss my personal life on the forum, but could not resist this one time. I also thought I might get flamed pretty good for my comments.

Just a few more comments, my ex has never let me have a relationship with my son. That was my punishment for not sticking with her. None of the fathers are allowed to see their kids. My ex moved every 6 months and from state to state. To this day she still uses her Mother's address. She pays the first,last month rent and security, lets it run out and it ussally takes about 6 mos. before she can get evicted.

Courts, for the most part they are a joke. I brought her to court a half dozen times getting court orders to see my kid. Literally tens of thousands of dolllars spent. The nut is in Florida now. I'm in NY.

She has had me arrested for assult. Threateened to kill me in my sleep. Had my best friend arrested. His Mom arrested.

When I did have visitation, my son went home with a rug burn on his back. Child welfare investigated it as sexual abuse.

I could write a book. May 1st, She can, in the words of John Moran," Kiss my royal irish a$$.

As for my son going to college, ha, he was never made to go to school, He is 17 still in 9th grade. Lazy, just like his MOM.

70 posted on 01/21/2002 3:50:29 AM PST by n.y.muggs
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To: pbmaltzman
Do prenuptial agreements stand up in court?

You are not allowed to write a prenup which covers the really important issues: custody, child support and separation of marital property. Prenups only cover assets owned going into the marriage. Even then, judges often ignore them.

71 posted on 01/21/2002 6:43:19 AM PST by Architect
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To: n.y.muggs
This is really bad but unfortunately not uncommon. I have a step-brother I barely know because his psycho mother was of a similar bent. She eventually dumped him with her third husband, who raised him. Now he has very little contact with his father, is convinced his father beat him (he didn't that I ever saw) and that his "poor mother" is just the unluckiest woman in the world. And he's turned into a self-righteous little prig.

On the other hand, my father actually did beat my mother, and after she left, never paid a dime of child support and rarely visited me (he was a druggie.) So I don't believe that All Women Are Ee-vil. But some are, that's certain.

72 posted on 01/21/2002 6:55:21 AM PST by Anamensis
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To: n.y.muggs
Some women are vengeful (as well as some men I know) and this is unfortunate. Thank God you got out of the marriage when you did. Child support is a small price to pay ...to be released from a life-time of hell in a union with someone like your wife. It's unfortunate that we make unwise choices in youth.... which have consequences that last for a number of years. If your son is 17... then you are almost in the clear! Look forward to the day you can put this behind you... once and for all. Cheers!
73 posted on 01/21/2002 7:33:43 AM PST by LaineyDee
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To: FITZ
I know what you mean about seeing both sides. I've seen it too. Your idea probably is a good one, however, that would not have covered couples like my husband and I who didn't realize the value of a stay at home parent until AFTER we had children. How would you cover for couples like us, who like many other couples, change thier priorities and goals as thier life circumstances change?
74 posted on 01/21/2002 8:55:36 AM PST by glory
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To: enrg
LOL..too true enrg. Your father was right on. I think the gamble is on both sides. I was addressing those who were ridiculously on the side of it being gamble for men mainly, when there are still(maybe not in the same # as years past)plenty of women getting screwed too who agreed with thier dh's to stay home.

I agree, enough people don't take marriage seriously and the law is way too deep into it, but how do you eliminate that when people can't get along with each other during a divorce, and even with prenups, constantly challenge them when a marriage is finally over?

75 posted on 01/21/2002 9:01:20 AM PST by glory
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To: DNA Rules,
Interesting timing on this article... I just got a spam advertisement in my e-mail box this afternoon, announcing a seminar on "how to marry a rich man and then divorce him." It was being held in Atlanta, Georgia.

The topics included in the seminar included how to dress, where to find rich men, how to decide if you want to divorce him, and what to do if you decide to stay married. Charming, eh?

I wrote back, asking to be taken off the list, and asking how this was any different from outright prostitution? If women want an income equal to men's, they can go out and earn one just like men's income. Or, if they want to be a stay-at-home spouse, they can do that too.

But they can't have it both ways--or, IMO, they should not be able to have their cake and eat it too.

76 posted on 01/21/2002 4:30:55 PM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: DNA Rules
Been there, done that. But it's nice someone's finally telling the truth after all these decades.
77 posted on 01/21/2002 4:33:48 PM PST by Phaedrus
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To: glory
I don't know ---it gets very complex because so many cases are different. I think for the sake of the children, it would be better if couples negociated for themselves before they agree to marry ---leave the lawyers and judges out of it all and they'd also save money. If a couple agreed both would work and things would be split accordingly, but then changed their minds, they could make another agreement.

It's always better for people to settle their own conflicts but sometimes during a divorce, one is too hurt and bitter, so maybe it would be best to do everything up front. That way if a man promises a woman he will always take care of her and wants her to stay home with the kids, it would be in writing.

78 posted on 01/21/2002 5:41:46 PM PST by FITZ
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To: enrg
.... I think people should look less to the courts to fix the problem.....

If they can do that. I think prenuptials would actually be a way to avoid lawyers and courts later. Before you marry, it would be better for each to have a clear understanding of each other's expectations about the wife working or what happens in the case of adultery etc from either party. In a way it sounds cynical but the way things are now isn't very good for any kids involved. Only the lawyers benefit.

79 posted on 01/21/2002 5:52:58 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Oh, I completely agree with you. I have seen it both ways. My friend is recently divorced and she quit work- at his urging- after they had their first child. He is very well off and paying her a fair amount of spousal support until their daughter is school age. I just think it would be a lot better if people took marriage and divorce a little bit more seriously. (Haha. Misplaced idealism.)
80 posted on 01/21/2002 9:40:00 PM PST by conservative cat
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