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To: Claud
Not at all. One would just have to believe that the writings and the oral traditions both draw from the same source--the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Truth can never contradict itself.
The apostles wrote and preached the same exact things--the difficulty you are having is that you are attempting to understand what they wrote outside of the context of what they taught. That's why it seems contradictory to you.
But I really wanted you to answer my other question, post 229--how do we get from God deciding the canon, to man knowing what that canon is and putting it together?

Well, then you need to explain why your cult teaches you to pray to idols, because there is NOTHING in the Bible about Jesus or any Apostle "venerating images" or teaching anyone lese to do so. There is NOTHING in the Bible about Mary being anything other than a normal sinful human being like all the rest of us, who needs a savior.

Writing the Books of the New Testament
Date and author. By about A.D. 100, all 27 books of the New Testament had been written, thus meeting the need for a permanent record of the gospel. Either Apostles or men who had an extremely close relationship to an Apostle wrote the books of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit fills all believers, but the Apostles received unique power to carry out their assignment from Jesus. The Holy Spirit taught them all things, and caused them to remember all that Jesus had taught them (John 16:12-15). Thus, books that measured up as works of the Apostles were regarded as the very Word of God, for they established a permanent connection between Christians of all ages and the Apostles, setting a standard for Christian belief and practice. Many writings of men who lived during the time of the Apostles contain references or quotations from books of the New Testament. The Bible: God's Inspired, Inerrant Word

237 posted on 12/13/2001 9:07:15 AM PST by Unbeliever
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To: Unbeliever
Thus, books that measured up as works of the Apostles were regarded as the very Word of God,

By saying "measured up" and "were regarded", you are implying that *someone* was doing the measuring! My question was *who* did the measuring?

These excerpts are from the website you cited:

#1: (William Evans)
The first and most important work of the apostles was to deliver a personal testimony to the chief facts of the Gospel history (Mark 16:15; Acts 1:21,22). Their teaching was at first oral, and it was no part of their intention to create a permanent literature. A cycle of selected representative facts sufficed to form the groundwork of their oral Gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-10).

#2: (Leland Haines)
There are basically two different forms of communication, oral and written. The apostles used both in exercising their "power of attorney" to present Christ's Word. The oral form is by far the earliest form used and dates back to the their first commission to "preach" (Matt. 10, Mark 3:13-19, Luke 6:12-16). Apostolic preaching was for many years the only form used and held a place of high importance throughout the Apostolic era. Since this such an important form of communication, authorized by Christ for use by the apostles, we should understand it and be acquainted with the New Testament concept of it.

In the New Testament there are many references to this oral form. Luke wrote that his writings "were delivered . . . unto us (Luke and his contemporaries) which from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word" (Luke 1:1-4). Jude also wrote that when he was eager 'to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). Paul wrote, "stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" (2 Thess. 2:15).

Even these authors you cite acknowledge that, for at least the first few decades in Church history, the Word was passed down orally. They go on to say that the oral tradition suddenly dropped out of existence after the New Testament was codified--but where they get their evidence for such a categorical statement, I have no idea. Rather, the oral teaching continued along *with* the written Scripture and continues to this day--never, of course, contradicting anything Scriptural because they both come from the same source.

Also, I point out that in every case, the authors of those articles note that it was the *Church* (i.e. apostles, their pupils, the whole community of believers) who *decided* ultimately which books went in the canon, which is what you said above. And that's totally logical. But what the authors have perhaps not considered is what implication that has for the power of the visible Church to *make* these kinds of categorical declarations.

What kind of person/persons in the early Church had the authority to make these declarations? Especially considering the Apostles were dead by then?

238 posted on 12/14/2001 11:03:21 AM PST by Claud
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