[Freedom of Speech Wins]

Grose presents what I believe to be a logical argument.

[ChicagoRepublican]

Now if this wasn't from newsmax.com I would believe it.

[anniegetyourgun]

Vern is a personal friend and a smart man. I can see why they brought him out of semi-retirement! I'll be interested to see what he comes up with.

[Stevieboy]

Something smells.

The NTSB held a news conference/update tonight and CBC Newsworld covered it live around 10:30 EST.

CTV NewsNet also carried it live.

CNN did not. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 'that' what CNN does? Carries stuff like that live? Especially stuff like that?

Instead, CNN ran a 10 second soundbite of the NTSB Chair claiming all evidence points to an accident (or) no evidence of sabotage.

Am I losing my mind?

[Husker24]

True, that verticle stabilizer is the odd thing in this. Maybe the engine started to disinigrate and a piece of it shot out and cut off the stabilizer in mid flight before it fell off, that even seems a little far fetched though considering the proximity of the engines and the stabilizer.

[VA Advogado]

"Earlier today I thought it was simply the loss of an engine that caused this," Grose told FNC. "But I'm not convinced now.... I am becoming more skeptical."

Grose presents what I believe to be a logical argument.

You got that right. Perhaps Mr Gross should consider that it was both the loss of an engine and the vertical stablizer that caused this trouble. Unless the thing just blew up, the conspiracy theories pieced together based on the sequence of how it came apart is just bunk.

[rightwinggal]

Exactly.... Mmmmm...let's see...out of New York, early morning (9AM), Veteran's Day (holiday), American Airlines... We may never hear the truth on this one but something is fishy at JFK.....or is JFK cursed (sarcasm)

[DoughtyOne]

I feel that he makes a rational arguement as well, but what impresses me more is the mad rush to solve this case within moments of it's occurance. We're hardly twelve hours along and the pundits are cranking out the theories faster than we can post them.

[concerned about politics]

I don't believe "the plane just kinda fell apart, right there in the sky".
I think it was taken down, one way or another.
The pilot nor the plane volenteered!

[Operation Infinite Jumble]

One of the things that bothers me is that the pilot had time to dump fuel, but the tower said that they had no indication that anything was wrong before it went down. If the pilot had the time to dump fuel, I assume the pilot could have told the tower that there was something wrong. I might be missing some facts or some information may not have come out yet, so I'm not going to jump to any conclusions.

[mcollins]

When you are at war and a plane goes down with an explosion, you might start by blamming the enemy.

This wimpy notion that we should not be mad at the enemy makes me FREEKING puke. I guess I am not a red blooded American because I have not made sure that my childern have Muslim pen pals.

This is no way to manage the morale during war time. I am outraged at the enemy and we remain so until they are vanquished. Forget this idea of bringing them to justice. That sounds like a FREEKING trial by jury with the ACLU watching out for their rights. NO NO NO. I want them vanquished.

These last few days were a disaster for the Taliban. Why wont Bush use our victories to boost morale through the roof.

[Theresa]

I just keep thinking that somebody messed with that plane so it would have mechanical or structural problems and come apart. A guy on Hardball said that there would be thorough interviews of the ground crew who checked the plane out before it took off. Then again it seems like if a terrorist had infiltrated the ground crew he would sabbotage a plane that was headed inland and not out to sea where it would do less damage if it did not fall apart until it was over the water.

[let freedom sing]

Plenty of former NTSB officials. Look at the evidence, first-- then the present NTSB can tell us what they think.

[lexington minuteman 1775]

Well I am sure the government will tell us the truth here.I really believe that.Of course I do. ha!

[WOOHOO]

The engine didn't just "fall off". The wing didn't just "rip lose". Fuel tanks don't "just explode".

[JoeSchem]

It happened two months to the day after WTC, and within sight of Ground Zero. Oh, and in Afghanistan, the Taliban is crumbling and Osama bin Laden may not last the week.

People who think this was 'probably' an accident don't understand probability theory.

I would work on the assumption that it was an act of sabotage, and start pursuing leads before the trail gets too cold.

[bonesmccoy]

Perhaps I should stick with analysis of bioterrorism, but can I ask you military aviation types a few questions:

1. When an aircraft is undergoing a progressive loss of major structural elements (i.e. verticle stabilizer, wing, engine, etc.), aren't there finite causes of this kind of structural failure? If so, what are those causes?

2. Bird strikes can cause a loss of an engine, but would it lead to loss of the verticle stabilizer prior to loss of an engine's structural integrity?

Even if the jet underwent a rapid thrust imbalance and yawed to a ridiculous angle, can the load really be capable of snapping the verticle stabilizer? The photo suggested that the tail had loss of integrity along rivet lines (hence the straight edges). Isn't that a bit odd?

3. The pattern required to find an on-board explosion would be the INSIDE of the fuselage/wing structure and NOT the outside. Has anyone seen pictures of the INSIDE of the tail?

[Committed]

Earlier today, I was convinced we experienced an in-flight bombing based on just what the commentator cited. However, since then, I have decided it's just as likely that the engine parted from it's mounts and, under thrust, flew back into the horizontal tail section, causing the aircraft to break up. The engine has enough enertia to continue on while the tail pieces would fall far short of the crash site, in Jamiaca Bay. So the possibility of a mechanical failure still remains at least as likely as foul play.

Either way, it's still tough on the families and the residents of the NY area. Lets keep them in our prayers.

[momofsixgirls]

Another pundit of some sort was also talking this evening, either on fox or msnbc. I found it interesting that someone pointed out that all the most recent plane crashes (twa800, swissair, egypt air, and today's) all took off from JFK. Makes you wonder, I am just not sure what to wonder about.......my mind goes in several directions on this, anyone else?

[Huggy]

Please bear with me on a rather long post. I am admittedly new to posting but have read volumes from The FR Forum. From my reading and research I have seen some of the most astute observations and analyses from a most interesting cross section of individuals with varying degrees of expertise in a number of areas and have always learned a lot from just reading. That said, I believe that the members of this forum have the unmatched collective ability to research, analyze and make educated deductions from a compilation of sources, some of which are public, and some “private.”

I am a professional investigator with 15 plus years under my belt, but in no way am I an expert in matters of aviation or terrorism. I do, however, recognize the problems associated with eyewitnesses accounts but will not dwell on that here. I also recognize the importance of forensic findings but am not so naïve to believe that all of the forensic evidence will be presented to the public in a pristine fashion. My point is that regardless of the official “cause” of the crash, there will be negative ramifications to the airline and travel industry that is already on the critical list post 09/11. I believe that any official disclosure of the cause will be made in a fashion designed to have the least impact on the future of those industries. Professionally and morally, I am bothered by any agenda driven conclusion and do not agree with it, but I (almost) understand it.

Having laid that foundation, I think that it would be great to see a collective effort made by members of this forum to use their (our) abilities to insure a level of accountability by the applicable investigative agencies to get to the truth of the matter so the cause is not a matter of speculation years from now (e.g. TWA Fight 800). Perhaps it’s wishful thinking, and perhaps it might not be possible to reconstruct the events of this ill-fated flight. But after reading the countless informative posts made by engineers, other former and current investigators, members with personal reliable sources, etc. on this group, if any ONE single group has the ability to be a watch dog of sorts, I believe FR is it. We have had the ability to collect information from virtually the minute the incident occurred, and continue to collect information from various sources. Maybe I am an idealist, but I believe that this forum has created this opportunity for us all. I am willing to assist to the extent that I can, and welcome any suggestions for the implementation of such a course of action.

To all who have read and considered my post and understand its positive intent, thank you.

[KQQL]

Never forget what the NTSB said about the crash of TWA 800 back in 2000.

National Transportation Safety Board ended the most exhaustive investigation in aviation history by declaring that a short-circuit was "most likely" the cause.

Yea Right :
They were under pressure from Billy Bob Bubba to lie.

Maybe AA crash was due to a mechanical problem, but then again it could easily be a terrorist act too.
TWA, Swiss Air and now AA blow up in the sky after taking off from JFK.
I would check the mechanics, to see if any have OBL connection.
Something smells fishey about this crash today, after all, this plane crashed in NYC 2 months from 9/11/2001.