World Health Body Rules Outy Mass Smallpox Jabs

Reuters | 10/26/01 | Richard Washington

[Carry_Okie]

It is my opinion that the UN completed the eradication of variola in order to have the whole planet wide open to it later. It was a Classic Club of Rome move. I dread to think what the criteria will be for receiving a vaccination... taking the chip? Sterilization?

[joathome]

While "only" 30% may die, remember that many of the remaining will be terribly disfigured for the rest of their lives.

[Carry_Okie]

What fraction of the US population has never been vaccinated? Should they (children) be the first in line? Perhaps there may even be enough vaccine to do that job either right now or very soon.

Another approach might be to see if we can find sources of cowpox: the original variola vaccine discovered by Edward Jenner. I have begun inquiries regarding obtaining an emergency sample should the US government prove itself characteristically (and perhaps complicitly) negligent.

[Carry_Okie]

Iraq, Russia, North Korea, and the US.

[Let's Roll]

"This isnt a trick question--280 deaths next to 84 MILLION deaths--which one do you choose?"

And most or all of the rest would be permanently disfigured. Does the word "pockmarked" ring a bell? This is serious stuff. SP is also as contagious as the flu or even more so.

[FITZ]

I dread to think what the criteria will be for receiving a vaccination... taking the chip?

They will allow some vaccinations, they must because no doctor or nurse or lab person, or any health care worker is going to get near someone with smallpox or handle lab specimens from them, unless they themselves are immunized---and early enough so they don't risk taking smallpox home to their families. Once people have the vaccinia virus they can spread it among themselves without the government ---just like you can spread chickenpox and flus and colds----because it is a live virus. The government really cannot prevent people from self immunizing if they wanted to do it.

[Carry_Okie]

Is there a published process or procedure for doing that correctly? Do you have or know of such a reference?

This could happen fast. I prefer to be prepared, especially if can be done relatively easily over a period of time without major hassle or expense.

[FITZ]

Here's a good source about "variolation" which was practiced in Africa, Asia, and parts of Europe---- that was deliberately exposing someone to a minor form of smallpox (variola minor) which left serious scars but didn't kill.

http://38.232.17.254/journals/annals/15oct97/smallpox.htm

That survivors of smallpox became immune to the disease was common knowledge. As a result, physicians and others intentionally infected healthy persons with smallpox organisms in the hope that the resulting infection would be less severe than the naturally occurring illness and would create immunity. Children were exposed to organisms from persons with mild cases of smallpox, and various forms of material from persons with smallpox were administered to healthy adults in different ways.

This is another reference ---about the vaccinia vaccine which is kept now by the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5010a1.htm

Transmission of vaccinia virus can occur when a recently vaccinated person has contact with a susceptible person. In a 1968 10-state survey of complications of vaccinia vaccination, the risk for transmission to contacts was 27 infections/million total vaccinations; 44% of those contact cases occurred among children aged <5 years (53). Before the U.S. military discontinued routine smallpox vaccination in 1990, occurrences of contact transmission of vaccinia virus from recently vaccinated military recruits had been reported, including six cases resulting from transmission from one vaccine recipient (59--61).

[FITZ]

I remember my mother talking about spreading the smallpox vaccine to others, if for some reason you had to use this method, you would want to make sure you only got the infection in one small part of the skin so only one pox happens, otherwise you can have them spread ---but even then it's usually just a few pox. A person on chemotherapy or who is immune deficient shouldn't do this. The CDC article refers to unintentional vaccination of others usually living in the same household, but an intentional infection could be done more carefully.

[FITZ]

http://seercom.com/bluto/smallpox/prevention.html

http://cns.miis.edu/research/cbw/smallpox.htm

http://cns.miis.edu/research/cbw/smallpox.htm

And you can do any search on "Lady Montague" who is the one who brought variolation to England or "Edward Jenner" who started using cowpox to do innoculations. They didn't have anything more sophisticated than needles and they didn't need a government to decide for them.

[Carry_Okie]

Why not cowpox? If it worked for Jenner, shouldn't it work now? It isn't fatal or even terribly serious.

[Carry_Okie]

They didn't have anything more sophisticated than needles and they didn't need a government to decide for them.

Praise God.

[Carry_Okie]

In 1958, Soviet Union proposed a global campaign to eradicate smallpox.

Now isn't that special. What altruists! Maybe we should rub shoulders in the Duma.

[Carry_Okie]

This one is good too.

[Carry_Okie]

Background: More than 200 years ago, in one of the first demonstrations of vaccination, Edward Jenner inoculated a young English boy with cowpox material from a dairymaid and showed that the boy became resistant to smallpox. Today, cowpox is a rare disease, largely confined to small mammals on the European continent and in Great Britain, with occasional transmission to humans. Most cases present with a small number of vesicopustular lesions on the hands or face that subsequently ulcerate and develop a black eschar before spontaneously resolving. Rarely, cutaneous dissemination and even death may occur.

Pathophysiology: Cowpox is caused by the cowpox or catpox virus, a member of the orthopoxvirus family, which also includes smallpox and vaccinia. The virus is thought to be acquired by direct contact with an infected animal, most often a cat in the case of humans, with lesions occurring where the virus gains access through broken skin. Infection generally remains localized at the initial site of inoculation, though lymphatic spread in a sporotrichoid pattern and generalized skin infection have been reported.

Frequency:

In the US: Cowpox has never been reported in the United States.

Internationally: Cowpox is a very rare infection of humans, with only approximately 60 human cases ever reported. The majority of cases have been reported in Great Britain, with a small number from Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, and Norway. Most cases occur in the late summer and fall.

Mortality/Morbidity: Human cowpox is normally a self-limited disease. The host immune response is usually sufficient to control the viral infection and the only sequelae are scars at the site of the pox lesions. Of the 3 cases of severe generalized skin infection that have been reported, 2 of the patients had atopic dermatitis, and the third patient had hay fever.

[tallhappy]

. The sense I get is that smallpox was considered hard to weaponize on any mass scale, too survivable, and too easy to contain. That's why others, such as anthrax,

What have you been reading?

I'm dumbfounded that anyone would be under such an impression.

Perhaps you are mixing it up with weaponizing it.

[FITZ]

Yes cowpox too and there might be others that provide cross-immunity against smallpox. All these are natural diseases that can be beneficial by preventing a far worse disease and they aren't attenuated vaccines like some so there's nothing really that special about them. It makes me wonder on one hand why the government can come up with that line about it taking months and months to make it available to the public because viruses don't take that long to replicate, but then on the other hand it wouldn't be difficult to get around the government either if it became necessary.

[Anthem]

Perhaps you are mixing it up with weaponizing it.

I'm having a hard time following you here...(?) I thought it was clear that I was refering to the difficulty of weaponizing smallpox. Also, the material I read, which may have been dated (about 10 years old, if memory serves), mentioned the ability to contain smallpox in the context of the technology/methodology already available that was used to eradicate it.

[Carry_Okie]

I suggest a "white" market. ;-)

[tallhappy]

I'll just say as brief as possible.

Anthrax is nothing compared to small pox.

Small pox is highly infectious and does not need to be weaponized to be effective against us. Weaponized meaning making it in to a fine powder that can disseminate into the air and float without being seen.

The things you mention, about ringing it and the like, are right. That's what is done.

But even with such a full response there would be a very high death rate. It's all relative and "containiment" you are talking about as the best case scenario of responding would still be musch worse than an anthrax attack.

When they say it could be contained they are talking about compared to not responding in such a manner.