That's the fluffy bunny God. All nice and forgiving. You forget that God is both perfect mercy and perfect justice. Where is the justice if I steal a hundred dollars, say I'm sorry, am forgiven, and keep the hundred dollars?
There are temporal effects to our sin, and while we may be forgiven by the sacrifice of Christ, there is still damage to ourselves, others, and God which must be repaired.
And the process is not one of separating good from bad. It's one of changing from Mortal or Natural to Immortal and Supernatural. One has to keep these things in Context.
Whatever. Would it make you happier if I said that we will be purged, changed from Mortal to Immortal, or from Natural to supernatural? The point is the same. The way we are right now is not sufficient. We shall be changed. What is corrupt must be come incorruptible.
Jesus said sin is death but belief in and obedience to Him grants eternal life. If there is still sin in the life of a Christian, it is not something they don't know about if they are truly Christian. And if it hasn't been dealt with at death, it is an anchor around their neck.
So if I kill someone and repent at the end of my life, am I forgiven? Did I repair the damage I did with my sin?
God does not honor Sin. Nor does he cleanse one of sin automatically. Sin must be repented from and forgiven before the end of life according to the Bible. Sin has consequence in the natural and in the spiritual. Catholicism doesn't understand this.
Oh, I see. You don't understand Purgatory or Catholicism at all. (Surprise, surprise.) Do you think that the Purging is of unrepented sins? You really don't get it.
After we repent and ask forgiveness from our sins we are forgiven. But there is still damage that must be repaired. Here on earth, or before we get to Heaven, the damage must be repaired.
I'm sure you took that our of context or did not understand the rhetorical point they were making. It probably had something to do with the acute realization of our unworthiness. In hell the soul can feel, much like in prison today, that he got "ripped off" that God isn't being "fair." In Purgatory, we will be made clean, each piece of dirt on our souls will be removed and examined. The ultimate goal of perfection is sweet, but the actual process of being cleaned may be even more painful than simply being damned.
Lemme quote an article for you: "Saint Mary Magdalen de Pazzi tells us that 'the pains suffered by all the martyrs are as pleasent gardens in comparison with the sufferings of the souls in purgatory'" "Saint Cyril said that, as for himself, he would rather suffer all the pains that have beset man from the time of Adam together with all that will beset him until the end of the world, rather than spend one day in purgatory. For since nothing, impure can enter Heaven, one must go to purgatory and, there, only tremendous suffering can satisfy the temporal punishment due offenses against an Infinite Goodness." "Saint Bridget beheld a soul in purgatory [yeah, right] tortured inexplicably for having been vain and having thought more of frivolous diversion than of things spiritual." "Saint Mary Magdalen de Pazzi reports that a saintly rligious was detained 16 days in purtatory for three trifling faults and that she would have been there longer had it not been that she had been very faithful to her rule" "A certain layman, although he was a good (Roman) Catholic was fifty-nine years in purgatory because of his love of comfort; another, thirty-five years for the same reason; a third, who was too fond of gambling was in purgatory for sixty years." "There is no man who can contemplate the fact of purgatory, then his own conscience, and not tremble with anxiety. First there is the fact that purgatory, regardless of its halo of being an ante-court of Heaven, is a chamber in which man expiates his sins against an Almighty and Infinite Good God. Second, the torture of this purification, and of delay from the eternal possession of God, may go on until the day of judgement! As a matter of fact, some private revelations witness that many souls are in purgatory until the day of Judgement; Saint Robert Bellarmine, a Doctor of the Church, says: 'There is absolutely no doubt that the pains of purgatory in some cases endure for entire centuries.'" -Haffert, John M. "Saturday in Purgatory", Scapular press, NY. Imprimatur - F.J. Spellman, Archbishop of New York. "The pains of purgatory are very severe, surpassing anything endured in this life. According to the Holy Fathers of the Church, the fire of purgatory does not differ from the fire of hell, except in point of duration.... Nothing but the eternal duration makes the fire of hell more terrible than that of purgatory." -Bishop Bellermine, "The Manual of the Purgatorial Society."
Is any of this you quoted saying what you said, that some Catholics wished to be in hell rather than go to Purgatory? No. When will you stop lying?
SD
Not so. When God forgives, he throws the memory away from him as far as the east is from the west to remember it no more. What you are saying is that once forgiven, there is still something to forgive and deal with. Which is a lie of the devil. When God forgives, the sin no longer exists. And whatever ramifications there are exists in the natural and are dealt with in the natural through the leading of the Spirit. God doesn't give any outs; but, he doesn't hold repented of and forgiven sins over anyone's head after death. If he can't remember it, how can he punish for it? If it's forgiven and repented of, how then can anything be left to remove. You see. You have to play games with semantics. Because you can't say on the one hand that God is true in His pronouncements and that all is forgiven, and then turn around and say that all isn't forgiven, there's still something to take care of.
You run from the quotes by Wilhelm because they are blatent and telling. You say the same things and couch them in semantics and sophistry. You blaspheme God without a thought and then act injured when it's pointed out and can't understand why we don't understand what you are saying. We do understand what you are saying. 'It is royal blue but it isn't royal blue. But it doesn't conflict and don't quote me on it because it isn't an official infallible ex-cathedra died in the wool pronouncement of the Clergy.' Lemme tell ya, I have the solid word of God that I can quote and it calls your doctrine a lie.
Would it make you happier if I said that we will be purged, changed from Mortal to Immortal, or from Natural to supernatural? The point is the same. The way we are right now is not sufficient. We shall be changed. What is corrupt must be come incorruptible.
It would make me happy if you believed the word of God and favored it over your philosophy. It would make me happier still if you weren't defending lies that are blasphemous before the Lord. But it isn't about me being happy, it's about you getting it right. You call it a 'state', others call it a place. You call it a mere purification, the quotation I gave you earlier shows it as a short stay in Hell. It shows a bunch of people who basically say they'd rather be in Hell than purgatory. It doesn't get much more plain than 'I'd rather suffer the ills of the entire world - all that were ever suffered from beginning to end of time - than stay in Purgatory a day'. You equate God with this vile master torturer who burns people in agony and beats them down before they can partake in his 'glory'. Wow, sounds amazingly like a page out of the Necronomicon. But, the Satanists really do believe and practice such things. Satan's followers are made to suffer unbeleiveably for their master to prove their worth - at their master's hands. God allows us to go through trials and temptations while here; but, there is no such garbage anywhere in scripture that comes even close to what you speak of.
So if I kill someone and repent at the end of my life, am I forgiven? Did I repair the damage I did with my sin?
Point out in the scriptures where it says that God holds all these things against you after forgiving you for them. Point it out. This isn't a scriptural construct, it is a construct of philosophy. You are using reason to make your argument. Where is the scripture. Just because you think it sounds right doesn't make it either scriptural or of God. Back it up.
Oh, I see. You don't understand Purgatory or Catholicism at all. (Surprise, surprise.) Do you think that the Purging is of unrepented sins? You really don't get it.
No, I do. You are just taking a moment and looking about to see if anyone catches what you're doing and trying to slide with it. I've posted at least two direct quotations from Catholic literature that specifically state that Purgatory is a cleansing of sin. The word "venial" is applied as though it's supposed to mean anything. The Bible says all sin is the same; But, one is unforgiveable. It also says that sin can in no wise enter heaven. It also says that we are to keep ourselves ready and free of sin for we don't know the day of his return. Why is that said? I'm glad as anything you asked. Because it also said that sin condemns us to Hell. Wow, what a revelation. Keep yourselves free of sin because when he comes back, if you are in sin, your battleship is sunk! Whoda thunk it? The Bible says these things over and over again. Catholicism has their own version. I understand it quite well. It throws the afformentioned proclaimations of God's word out the window and sets up it's own system - whereby sin can be held at death and men can still get to heaven. How sweet that must be in all Catholic fantasies. It sounds good and loving doesn't it. You only have to be tortured to within an inch of your eternal soul too; but, for a price we can say mass for you or enrole you in the purgatory society for a mere $20k. Oh, heck, let's make it $40k. I think I read that someone was pushing that during wwII. I'll have to check that one. Yeah, we'll even sell you trinkets to help you minimize the amount of fiery torture you'll have to endure at the hands of your God before you are worthy to be anywhere near him. You may have been forgiven; but, not by us you haven't. God will exact a pound of flesh for all your misdeeds after you die if you haven't paid them all back before then. Blasphemy begets blashphemy begets sin against God's people.
After we repent and ask forgiveness from our sins we are forgiven. But there is still damage that must be repaired. Here on earth, or before we get to Heaven, the damage must be repaired.
And where is your scripture. Asked above. Assumption, speculation, reasoned logic and philosophy aren't God's word. Where's the scripture.
Is any of this you quoted saying what you said, that some Catholics wished to be in hell rather than go to Purgatory? No. When will you stop lying?
Perhaps I need to start attaching a label [metaphor in use]? I've no need to lie to defend scripture. I can quote it freely and in full context. I don't mind posting a whole chapter for context or having anyone read a whole chapter for context. Ya'll want to take a scalpel and remove everything but what serves your purposes. This stuff is quite damaging enough without having to make anything up. How about dealing with what's there instead of swiping it away and pretending it isn't what you were told it is. Or did I take you by surprise by backwardly destroying some of your statements with Catholic literature that bares you out for how creative you are in order to sell the point..