Posted on 10/26/2002 1:59:09 PM PDT by polemikos
She is a "co redeemer "to them..if she was a wife and mother the mystic suprahuman element disappears
Right you are Mom.
I know that we agreed on this.
The reason for this is your reliance on NOT-VIA-DIOS. (Non-truth Of The Vatican's Incorrect And Debunked Interpretations Of Scripture).
Study the Book of Revelation. The Vatican has now been debunked. Turn to God's Word for TRUTH! (While you still CAN)
Hey!.....I've read several words of it I beg your pardon!
Study the Book of Revelation. The Vatican has now been debunked. Turn to God's Word for TRUTH!
What, prey tell could I learn from The Apocalypse? When the temple will be rebuilt? What candidates to support to insure Israel's security? Where the heifer might be located? Yours is a (forgive me for saying so) a kooky and potentially dangerous interpretation. It's as logical as someone claiming the discovery of a box debunks the Vatican. You said the committee that recommended that Jews not be converted debunked the Vatican. Rice Chex debunks the Vatican in your mind.
(While you still CAN)
How long do I have?
Do you mean "kooky" like the whole "Mary was Ever-Virgin even though had FIVE sons" idea?
Considering the fact that you clearly and admittedly --(What, prey tell could I learn from The Apocalypse?) -- know nothing of the Bible, what exactly are you doing on these threads, where serious people who have studied God's Word for years are debating something they consider important?
The fact that the RCC is filled with a billion "st. Chuck's" -- people who happily admit they know from nothing about God's Word -- is what allows them to ensnare and enslave people with their lies and deceptions.
You're ensnared willingly, and if I am right, you will one day weep and gnash your teeth because of that. (see # 156) But there may be seekers lurking on these threads who thirst for knowledge, discussion, and truth -- and you waste their time, giving your li'l opinions when you freely admit you haven't a clue what the Bible even says.
If you think God doesn't notice that, and you think He considers His Word to be of little importance, all I can say is -- GOOD LUCK.
I meant to say (see # 159) not 156.
What is the chain of custody SINCE it is alleged to have been found?
Who is the owner now?
How was it acquired?
From whom?
Where was it found?
How did the person said to possess the artifact get a French scholar in France to examine whatever was examined?
If that expertise was merely linguistic rather than archaeological, why not consult local Middle Eastern experts on Aramaic? Such questions only begin the inquiry. We certainly would all wish to be as concerned about standards of evidence as to this box or lid as we would be in authenticating a modern document before allowing it entered into evidence in a civil trial.
As I recall, stone does not carbon date very well since it lacks half-lives, not being at any time a living carbon-based organism.
Compare and contrast to the Shroud of Turin which may or may not be authentic but which lends itself to carbon-dating because it is carbon-based plant material converted to cloth. Even then, the carbon-dating process is not foolproof because it has trouble distinguishing the cloth from the damage done by the 14th Century cathedral fire which deposited molten silver on several areas and contaminated the cloth's surface by burning.
I make no claims for the Shroud of Turin or for many other artifacts said to be in the possession of my Church but, objectively, the Church has not been bashful about allowing scholarly research even by atheists and agnostics. The Shroud may the shroud of some other crucified prisoner. With little proof, I tend to think it is the lost Shroud of Odessa, subsequently acquired by a crusading knight and brought to Turin. If it is not, it is not. My Savior and yours liveth in either event.
You are obviously a dependable source for Catholic doctrine.
Why don't you give me the passage so I know that we're talking about the same thing.
Belief that Mary was ever-Virgin is harmless. Belief that you are capable of determining Our Lord's second coming when He clearly said you could not affects U.S. foreign policy and undermines U.S. national interests.....just for starters.
Considering the fact that you clearly and admittedly --(What, prey tell could I learn from The Apocalypse?) -- know nothing of the Bible, what exactly are you doing on these threads, where serious people who have studied God's Word for years are debating something they consider important?
If you are deceminating the idea that the bible teaches that the RCC is evil and is the Whore of Babylon, then I am going to expose you for the liar you are. Your interpretation blaspheme's the Holy Word of God. If you think you are engaging in serious debate, then you are quite deluded. If you don't want someone like me to refute your calumnies don't post them. Or post them on biblefreak.com...not here.
Have at it.
There are hundreds of millions of people who believe the Vatican's claim that it is "infallible" on spiritual matters. Do you think THAT is "harmless"?
Do you think the Inquisition was "harmless"?
Do you think the Crusades had no long-lasting "harmful" effects?
Well, I hope you had a good laugh! ;^) Dominus Vobiscum
Just telling you what I have read here from Catholic freeper ie. Mary was a dedicated temple virgin..no where in the bible..but posted by "knowledgeable " RC's here on FR...also Josephs age ..no where addressed in scripture..Here on FR we are told it is a "traditional belief "that he was aged with other childern"...all "FACTS?? " found in the gospel of Mary..the author of the text notes it is found in the works Jerome ...one of your church fathers..
Do you think the Inquisition was "harmless"?
I think that the Inquisition was beneficial. It struck at heresy, and preserved Christian orthodoxy. Inquisitional courts sat only where Church and state agreed that peace and security were threatened. Civil unrest necessitated these courts (rather than war and vigilantism) and the Church was involved due to the close relationship between church and state. Were there abuses? Yes, but only in a small part of southern Europe where Albigensianism ran amok. For the most part the church served as a brake on the secular courts. The courts of the Spanish Inquisition were the fairest, most lenient, and most progressive in all of Europe. You would probably be surprised to know that Texas kills more people per year than the Spanish Inquisition ever did, and I'm sure that is shocking to you since you know that heresy was a capital crime in Europe in those days.
Do you think the Crusades had no long-lasting "harmful" effects?
The crusades was a defensive war fought to keep Europe Christian. Had not the Crusades occurred you might well be a Koran scholar rather than a "bible scholar."
I answered your questions. Now answer mine. What Can I learn from The Apocalypse?
Wow!!!!
You think torturing and killing people who refused to bow down and worship a man, the pope, was BENEFICIAL???? And you have the unmitigated gall to accuse Bible-loving Born-again Christians of being "religious zealots"????????
Had not the Crusades occurred you might well be a Koran scholar rather than a "bible scholar."
Then why did JP2 formally APOLOGIZE for the Crusades in March 2000, begging the world for forgivness of what he called the Catholic Church's SINS?
Do you know anything about ANYTHING, chuckie? Is there any subject that your ignorance of prohibits you bloviating about?
I answered your questions. Now answer mine. What Can I learn from The Apocalypse?
Well you can learn that there is an organization that God calls "The Whore of Babylon". God tells us He DESPISES this organization, and commands His people to come out of it, or they WILL share in her punishments.God also gives some features of this organization so we can identify it. Among it's features are
1. It is known for wearing the colors red (cardinals) and purple (bishops).
2. It is "drunk with the blood of the saints" (true believers). (In other words, it is known for KILLING people who believed in Jesus Christ).
3. It is a world-wide (not regional) religion that has many adherents in many cultures and nations.
4. It is known for featuring a golden cup. (what other major worldwide religion on the earth today is known for a golden cup?)
5. It features a universally recognized leader. One man. God calls this person "The False Prophet".
6. It is headquartered in "the city that sits on seven hills". Ummm... that would pretty much be Rome.
What I provide for you is reality based on historical fact. What you provide is fantastic speculation on the allegorical content of The Apocalypse. Your malice for the RCC is based on myth, propaganda, and Satan's lies. I told you six months ago if you want to speak credibly about the RCC then you better get to a mass so you can appear to know what you are talking about. But I'm certain that you are more comfortable in your cocoon of ignorance. You don't want to learn anything that might penetrate your armor of prejudice. You are brainwashed.
Well today not only do the infidels live but the Popes kisses the Koran...Holy Spirit must have changed his mind
Well today not only do the infidels live but the Popes kisses the Koran...Holy Spirit must have changed his mind
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