Cardinal Husar denounces Uniatism - urges establishment of one Orthodox-Catholic Church in Ukraine

Interfax ^ | September 24, 2005

[Unam Sanctam]

Rome has always been orthodox, and Christ established His Church on the Rock of Peter, whose apostolic successor is head of the see of Rome.

[kosta50]

Hey I was surprized too!

I think we all agree this is a real crock! A Gree-Catholic-Orthodox "patriarch?" Give me a break. This is mental.

[Agrarian]

Let me add my agreement. This is a real joke, and a mere exercise in political gamesmanship on this fellow's part. And political gamesmanship has been what Uniatism has been about from the beginning -- not anything spiritual. Nothing to see here, now lets just move along...

[kosta50]

Nothing to see here, now lets just move along...

Yes, so right. Good to see you back Agrarian. You were in our thoughts.

[Kolokotronis]

"Christ established His Church on the Rock of Peter, whose apostolic successor is head of the see of Rome."

By that reasoning, it would seem to me that +Peter's apostolic successors would be the Patriarchs of Antioch, the third of whom, +Ignatius, was the first to define The Church...before there was anyone called the pope at Rome.

[TexConfederate1861]

Surely you don't believe those spurious Clementine writings? Christ gave that Authority to ALL of the Apostles.....

Rome ceased being Orthodox in 1054 AD.

[TexConfederate1861]

Kooky, but DANGEROUS.
If the Latins can't get in thru the front door.......

[MarMema]

Well I may be alone in this....but when I read it, I figured it for the same stuff posted when JP2 was live.
And it's never going to happen.

[MarMema]

Political games are a specialty in Ukraine.

I noted that when JP2 took Ziggy Brezinski with him to Ukraine for a "spiritual" visit, on the eve of Ukraine's consideration for NATO.

Brezinski's famous quote - "Now that the USSR has fallen, the only remaining enemy of the west is the Orthodox Church".

[sanormal]

The Cardinal's comments must be understood (in my opinion) in the context of the modern role of the Eastern Catholic Churches. The Eastern Catholic hierarchs with Eastern Orthodox counterparts have each denounced "uniatism" as a path to unity. That is, they have denounced the process of peeling away faithful and clergy from Eastern Orthodoxy only to establish them in parallel Catholic structures. This is "uniatism" properly understood and it belongs solely to the past. Further, these Eastern Catholic hierarchs have said that the Eastern Catholic hierarchical structures would be absorbed into Eastern Orthodox structures upon reunification, where parallel structures exist, not vice versa.

[jec1ny]

I am not sure if the Cardinal was not speaking clearly or if the article was just written badly, but some of it seems rather contradictory to me. I would like to see another article on the subject for clarification.

[NYer]

jec1ny wrote: I am not sure if the Cardinal was not speaking clearly or if the article was just written badly, but some of it seems rather contradictory to me. I would like to see another article on the subject for clarification.

I believe freeper 'sanormal' has hit the proverbial nail on the head with his post, repeated here.

"The Cardinal's comments must be understood (in my opinion) in the context of the modern role of the Eastern Catholic Churches. The Eastern Catholic hierarchs with Eastern Orthodox counterparts have each denounced "uniatism" as a path to unity. That is, they have denounced the process of peeling away faithful and clergy from Eastern Orthodoxy only to establish them in parallel Catholic structures. This is "uniatism" properly understood and it belongs solely to the past. Further, these Eastern Catholic hierarchs have said that the Eastern Catholic hierarchical structures would be absorbed into Eastern Orthodox structures upon reunification, where parallel structures exist, not vice versa."

Mar Nasrallah Cardinal Pierre Sfeir
MARONITE PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL THE EAST
and Pope JPII

The two are complimentary; theEastern Catholic Churches retain their unique identity and government while joining into the communion of the One, Holy, Catholic Church.

[kosta50]

Eastern Catholic hierarchs have said that the Eastern Catholic hierarchical structures would be absorbed into Eastern Orthodox structures upon reunification

What reunification? How can the Orthodox re-unite with these so-called Eastern Catholics, since it would involve communion with Rome?

If such re-union were to take place, between the Roman Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Church, the issue of the the UGCC would beocme irrelvant but it still remains to be seen under whose of what Orthodox structures would the UCGC fall. The jurisdictional issues between Moscow and Kiev would not disappear with this imagianry East-West re-union, that is currently somewhere near absolute zero degrees Kalvin. So, what is he talking about?!

he is talking union with the Vatican for the Orthodox by means of a new "church" that is obviously being planned in ukrained by Yushchenko. So much for the separation of the Church and state.

And -- a reminder -- the so-called Ukrianian Greek-Catholics make up only one third of Ukraine's Christians. That's hardly a position to dictate terms from, but it is clear where the Ukrainian government has set its sights.

[kosta50]

Brezinski's famous quote - "Now that the USSR has fallen, the only remaining enemy of the west is the Orthodox Church"

What a gem! Spoken like a true Polish intellectual. He is also the (in)famous one who called the Taliban the "soliders of God."

[TexConfederate1861]

There is only ONE Patriarch of Antioch. He isn't Latin by the way........nor Roman.

[Agrarian]

Thanks. I appreciate all of you holding down the Orthodox fort. Glad to see that there wasn't a FReeper Unia entered into while I wasn't looking! :-)

[Agrarian]

Actually, the one Patriarch of Antioch *is* Roman -- that's where the term "Rum" Orthodox comes from. The Orthodox Church was the continuation of the structure of the Roman empire after the fall of Constantinople (New Rome), and Orthodox were commonly known as "Romans." :-)

Now the Catholics, on the other hand, have no fewer than 3 men holding the title of "Patriarch of Antioch and all the East" -- even while courting the real Patriarch of Antioch, trying to get him to come into union with Rome. (Hey, what's one more "Patriarch of Antioch and all the East" amongst friends?)

[Agrarian]

Good old Ziggy -- you always could depend on him to help demonstrate genuine pravoslavnophobia of the most crude sort. Doesn't surprise me that he hung out with JPII...

[sanormal]

RE: See of Antioch

Reaction to the Council of Chalcedon triggered a schism in the Patriarchate of Antioch. The larger group which repudiated the Council eventually formed the Syrian Orthodox Church. The Eastern Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch is decended from those Greeks and hellenized sections of Antioch who accepted the Council.

In 1782 the Syrian Orthodox Church fractured when the Synod elected a Patriarch who declared himself Catholic. The Syrian Catholic Church descends from this time.

Immediately before the fall of Antioch to Islam, the two previous Patriarchs had been Monothelite (John III) and Monophysite (Athanasius). Islam persecuted the Greeks in Antioch and the Patriarchal see was vacant or occupied by a non-resident for most of the 7th and 8th centuries. Greeks regained control of the city in 969 and until 1085, when the city fell to the Seljuk Turks, the Greek Patriarchate prospered. During this time the Greeks replaced the West Syrian Liturgy with the Byzantine.

In 1098, Europeans set up a Latin Kingdom in Syria that would last 2 centuries and with it a Latin Patriarchate, while the Greek continued in exile.

The Egyptian Marmelukes took Syria in 1268 and the Greek returned but transferred the Patriarchate to Damascus. The Ottoman Turks took Syria in 1517 and would hold it until after WWI. The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch gained the support of the Ottoman government during this period.

In 1724, the Greek Patriarchate of Antioch was split when a pro-Catholic patriarch was elected. The Ottoman government supported the Constantinopolitan candidate, who was promptly ordained. The Ottomans drove the pro-Catholic faithful and clergy into Lebanon. The Melkite Greek Catholic Church descends from this time.

The last Greek Patriarch of Antioch was deposed by his faithful and clergy in 1898. An Arab successor was elected the following year. A strong Arab renewal began in the 1940's.

Of course the Antiochian followers of St. Maron sought refuge in Lebanon and became the Maronite Catholic Church.

Portions taken from: The Eastern Christian Churches, R Roberson.

[Iris7]

I can't see that this can be bad news.

As far as Subjection to Rome goes, I am 100% in favor.

I was dreading having to choose between my conscience and Donatism. Without Rome the American Church would have gone totally off the rails.

I think now that there is plenty of hope with His Holiness Benedict XVI. Gates of Hell lose again.

Our Pope looks to be a pretty durable fellow. Let us pray he may have health and strength.