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Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy
Adoremus ^ | October 2003 | Adoremus

Posted on 10/12/2003 5:13:10 PM PDT by Desdemona

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To: dubyaismypresident
No longer a papabile--YOU mentioned it. The jinx is on.
21 posted on 10/12/2003 7:37:26 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: drstevej
You Calvinists LEARNED kicking butt from Torquemada.

We teach ALL things in truth and charity. But you have learned well.
22 posted on 10/12/2003 7:38:29 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
No jinx if you declare yourself papable.

- Pope Piel
23 posted on 10/12/2003 7:38:37 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: ninenot
Precisely, why I will have a Inquisitional staff with Calvinists and Catholics. It just doesn't get better than that!
24 posted on 10/12/2003 7:39:41 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
He's us without the righteous indignation.
25 posted on 10/12/2003 7:59:33 PM PDT by RobbyS (CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
See post #6. Good game plan?
26 posted on 10/12/2003 8:03:25 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: RobbyS
OOPS, make that post #8.

I was not typing ex-cathedra.
27 posted on 10/12/2003 8:04:15 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Desdemona
Cardinal Arinze bump! Great article.
28 posted on 10/12/2003 8:21:33 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: Desdemona
Wow, great post! It's good to see that a lot of others have the same questions I've been having......and finally some answers!
29 posted on 10/12/2003 8:48:48 PM PDT by EsclavoDeCristo (What is this world comming to?)
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To: Desdemona
Thank you!
30 posted on 10/12/2003 9:25:14 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Unam Sanctam; RobbyS; Desdemona; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; drstevej

So all those that want to entertain us -- after Mass, let us go to the parish hall and then you can dance. :-D

Hope you all watched Raymond Arroyo's interview with Cardinal Arinze, Friday night on EWTN. Will post the transcript, once it becomes available on The World Over Live site. Cardinal Arinze smiled throughout the interview, while offering up clear and concise information on the liturgy.

31 posted on 10/12/2003 11:16:15 PM PDT by NYer (Pax et Bonum)
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To: ninenot
No longer a papabile--YOU mentioned it. The jinx is on.

Superstition.

32 posted on 10/13/2003 5:28:48 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Donavan Mcnaab is still over rated.)
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To: drstevej
Perhaps surgically implant a steel rod in Mahoney's back (he needs a spine anyway)

Um, Steve, snakes don't have spines.
33 posted on 10/13/2003 10:28:07 AM PDT by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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To: Desdemona
Exactly my point (***he needs a spine anyway***).
34 posted on 10/13/2003 10:33:51 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: NYer
I like his face. He looks peaceful.
35 posted on 10/13/2003 10:38:23 AM PDT by tiki
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To: tiki; Desdemona; Salvation; sandyeggo; drstevej
I like his face. He looks peaceful.

Watched the interview between Raymond Arroyo and Cardinal Arinze again today. Here are some of the more salient aspects:

1. The Novus Ordo mass is here to stay. Ecclesiae Dei Commision, headed up by Cardinal Hoyos, approved the Tridentine Rite "for always". It is up to the bishop to allow its use at a local level.

2. Those who declare the Novus Ordo Rite as "wrong" are fundamentalists and don't even deserve to attend the Tridentine Rite. These individuals no longer trust the church. The same Holy Spirit that inspired the Tridentine Rite, inspired the Novus Ordo Rite.. The have lost sight of the fact that Christ promised to remain with His church "for all days". Those who seek a restoration of the Tridentine Rite, often work under a hidden agenda to push through their request.

3. With regard to a 'universal indult', there was a misunderstanding. Cardinal Arinze has actively promoted more use of Latin within the Novus Ordo mass.

Cardinal Arinze spoke at length about how the Second Vatican Council came to make the changes that it did. He spoke of te church 200 years ago. The church knew little about the cultures in other countries. He cited many of the African nations, along with others. It was time to address the needs of all these cultrues. As Arinze put it, the church "does not live in the Vatican museum'.

He smiled throughout the interview, speaking globally and not, in the least offended, by his reception at Georgetown University. "The world is a big place", he said.

36 posted on 10/13/2003 3:56:36 PM PDT by NYer (Pax et Bonum)
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To: NYer
***The same Holy Spirit that inspired the Tridentine Rite, inspired the Novus Ordo Rite.***

This seems to be the watershed issue between the trads and the rest. Agree?
37 posted on 10/13/2003 4:00:32 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: ninenot
1 And Israel at that time abode in Settim, and the people committed fornication with the daughters of Moab,

2 Who called them to their sacrifices. And they ate of them, and adored their gods.

3 And Israel was initiated to Beelphegor: upon which the Lord being angry,

4 Said to Moses: Take all the princes of the people, and hang them up on gibbets against the sun: that my fury may be turned away from Israel.

5 And Moses said to the judges of Israel: Let every man kill his neighbours, that have been initiated to Beelphegor.

6 And behold one of the children of Israel went in before his brethren to a harlot of Madian, in the sight of Moses and of all the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle.

7 And when Phinees the son of Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest saw it, he rose up from the midst of the multitude, and taking a dagger,

8 Went in after the Israelite into the brothel house, and thrust both of them through together, to wit, the man and the woman in the genital parts. And the scourge ceased from the children of Israel.

9 And there were slain four and twenty thousand men.

And when Moses saw that the people were naked, (for Aaron had stripped them by occasion of the shame of the filth, and had set them naked among their enemies)

26 Then standing in the gate of the camp, he said: If any man be on the Lord's side, let him join with me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him:

27 And he said to them: Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword upon his thigh: go, and return from gate to gate through the midst of the camp, and let every man kill his brother, and friend, and neighbour.

28 And the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and there were slain that day about three and twenty thousand men.

29 And Moses said: You have consecrated your hands this day to the Lord, every man in his son and in his brother, that a blessing may be given to you.

And what about the time the First Inquisitor became angry because his warriors did not kill the wimmin & chirren. He sent them back to kill all the male children and all the women 'cept for the virgins, whom they saved for themselves.

In two days Moses bumped-off more individuals, wimmin & chiren included-than did the Inquisition in 300 years.

<>[Respected non-Catholic historian Edward Peters, in his work, Inquisition (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989, p. 87), states:

The Spanish Inquisition, in spite of wildly inflated estimates of the numbers of its victims, acted with considerable restraint in inflicting the death penalty, far more restraint than was demonstrated in secular tribunals elsewhere in Europe that dealtwith the same kinds of offenses. The best estimate is that around 3000 death sentences were carried out in Spain by Inquisitorial verdict between 1550 and 1800, a far smaller number than that in comparable secular courts.

Fray Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor whose very name is now a symbol of ruthless cruelty, actually checked the excessive zeal of the earlier inquisitors in many ways, including the limiting and mitigating of torture. Walsh thinks that torture under Torquemada was no worse than that used by American police in the 1930s. Also, under Torquemada's entire tenure as Grand Inquisitor (1483-1498), 100,000 prisoners passed before his various tribunals throughout Spain. Of this number, less than 2% were executed. In Barcelona, from 1488 to 1498, "one prisoner out of 20 was put to death" (23 executions). Torquemada is not the monster of the Black Legend; still, he was responsible for, as an estimation, between 1,000 and 1,500 deaths. And by burning, the common method for those times.<>

Compared to Moses, The Torque was Alan Alda on Valium and Progesterone.

38 posted on 10/13/2003 4:36:57 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: NYer; ninenot

This line seemed a bit un nerving

"Those who seek a restoration of the Tridentine Rite, often work under a hidden agenda to push through their request."

No hidden agenda, people are sick of the abuses, even abuses that are regaurded as lict. Even Cardinal Arinze himself said eralier in the year said that many people attend the TRidentine masses because they are sick of the abuses.

Look, if the Novus Ordo was properly celebrated like it is with Assuption Grotto and St Agnes, if it was properly translated, if altar girls and EMEs were abolished(with so many Deacons being ordained, one would think there would be less need for EMEs, and I think that the more deacons ordained the better to get rid of EMEs), and if the altar rails were never taken away and kneeling was still the normative for reception of communion, the demand for the traditional mass would be nill, and those who support the TRidentine rite would be literally dieing off. Sadly, the mistaken ideal of "Worshiping like early Christians" have been shoved down the laitys throats and a very agressive manner, and who could blame so many for being sick of it.

I myself do not like schism, I think the SSPX should take the deal Rome gave them, but that said, if some Catholics are suffering like they are out in Long Island, if they are in diocese that have no parish equivlent to even Holy Rosary in Portland or St. Patricks in Columbus, and of course, no convinent indults, or even the rare Anglican Use parish then they should be hardly blamed for going to a SSPX parish to get the reverence they so richly deserve. And yes, they still recieve valid sacraments.
39 posted on 10/13/2003 4:48:49 PM PDT by JNB
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To: NYer
2. Those who declare the Novus Ordo Rite as "wrong" are fundamentalists and don't even deserve to attend the Tridentine Rite. These individuals no longer trust the church. The same Holy Spirit that inspired the Tridentine Rite, inspired the Novus Ordo Rite.. The have lost sight of the fact that Christ promised to remain with His church "for all days". Those who seek a restoration of the Tridentine Rite, often work under a hidden agenda to push through their request.

I think he knows what he's talking about

40 posted on 10/13/2003 4:54:24 PM PDT by tiki
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