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Jesus in the Talmud
American Jewish Committee ^ | 9/24/2003 | Steven Bayme, National Director, Contemporary Jewish Life Department

Posted on 10/08/2003 5:24:32 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

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To: Hermann the Cherusker
The book mentioned in the sources, Christianity in the Talmud & Midrash by Travers Herford, was published in London in 1903, it was only reprinted by Ktav in NJ in 1975. It is an excellent source for all the citations involved.

Reading the (rather few) Talmudic mentions of Jesus it becomes obvious that these comments are rather spitefully made in the third or fourth century, at a time when there was a lot of friction between the early Christians and the Jews. It is fairly obvious that the Talmudic comments know Jesus only by word of mouth from contemporary Christians and not from any historic tradition. Some of the stories link this Jesus with events or people who clearly did not live in the period of the Gospels.

Some of the quotations do not actually appear in the best editions of the Talmud, but appear only in a few old manuscripts -- the common thought was that they were deleted by government (Christian) censors during the Middle Ages, but I think there is a distinct possibility that some of these were not perpetuated in the Talmud because they were either inauthentic or obviously foolish, and not because of Christian pressures.

21 posted on 10/09/2003 10:10:40 AM PDT by DonQ
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To: malakhi
Good Morning Malakhi,

Spending the early mrning reading many many posts from Freepers regarding "Jesus" a strong debate that is now ensuing within the Jewish Communites as well as in Christian sects is becoming (It Seems)one of the hottest topic debates around obviously with the upcoming movie regarding "The Passion of Christ"

My question for you is this: I have read your links to the "Talmud" as well as other links to the "Talmud" by other Jewish Scholars as well as a Talmud script from a Jewish Theologian that was pretty herendous, so I omit that one..

What is it in your opinion that gives one Tamud's (The one you posted) version of the crucifixcion of Jesus more creedence than the other?
what bases or scripture are you using.

Also if we agree that Jesus exsisted was born in Judea was a Jew and executed, would you be saying from some of your Talmud links his death is not mentioned because it did not matter? and others with a similar name "Yeshu" would have more credibility in the "Talmud" then Jesus?

Last question: From your Talmud perspective would you say that the name "Yeshu" would be a common name for jews to be executed due to sorcery or practicing magic? and why even mention these jews at all? what importance do they have in the "Talmud"

Thank you for your reply :)
22 posted on 01/25/2004 8:47:40 AM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
What is it in your opinion that gives one Tamud's (The one you posted) version of the crucifixcion of Jesus more creedence than the other?

Based upon the research I have done, this is the traditional opinion among orthodox Jews. Those who read these passages differently tend to be either non-Jews with an agenda, or liberal Jews who are opposed to the Talmud in general. Many of these people deny the divine inspiration of scripture and accept the "documentary hypothesis" and other "higher critical" theories. Why should you believe what they say about the Talmud?

Also if we agree that Jesus exsisted was born in Judea was a Jew and executed, would you be saying from some of your Talmud links his death is not mentioned because it did not matter?

From the standpoint of Christians, the execution of Jesus was the central moment in history. From the standpoint of the Romans, it was just one more execution among thousands. John the Baptist gets more print in the works of Josephus than does Jesus. With one or two exceptions, other contemporary writers don't mention him at all. So it isn't surprising that he wasn't mentioned in the Talmud. Remember that by the time the Talmud was written down, Christianity has ceased being a Jewish sect, and had become a gentile religion.

From your Talmud perspective would you say that the name "Yeshu" would be a common name for jews to be executed due to sorcery or practicing magic? and why even mention these jews at all? what importance do they have in the "Talmud"

Yeshu (and all its variants) was one of the most common names of the time. So it isn't surprising that it turns up in the Talmud. The Talmud is more of a literary anthology than it is a strictly didactic work. In addition to commentary on the law, it contains fables, parables, moral teachings, folk wisdom, history, etc. Not everything contained in it should be considered of equal significance. These few passages are being highlighted here, and being rated as far more important than they appear in the context of the Talmud -- that is, a few brief passages out of a huge multi-volume work.

23 posted on 01/26/2004 6:36:50 AM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
Thank You for your reply's Malakhi...

The interpetation of religious doctrine can be overwhelming..There is differences of doctrines I have been reading within Judiasm as well as Christianity, we base our knowledge from scrolls, historical records, ancient sites as a basis of what everyone either believes is True or False...

And I guess that is why "FAITH" and "PRAYER" in the scheme of things is what brings us closer to G-d, otherwise without it, Religion is an on going history lesson with no end in site...

There is good and then there is evil, there is right and there is wrong and what manifests between the both of them is the on going controversy, but I will keep reading..

Have a Great Day!
24 posted on 01/26/2004 7:30:23 AM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
And I guess that is why "FAITH" and "PRAYER" in the scheme of things is what brings us closer to G-d, otherwise without it, Religion is an on going history lesson with no end in site...

Amen, no disagreement there.

Have a Great Day!

Thanks, you too! :o)

25 posted on 01/26/2004 7:59:21 AM PST by malakhi
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To: dangus

what do you mean? The Talmud uses the common name Yeshu. Why should one doubt that it could be talking about someone else? Historical fact shows that their were many false prophesyers and many people named Yeshu. Also let us not forget that Jesus wasn't necessarilly as famous then as he is now. The Romans crucified many people very often for the same offense as Jesus.


26 posted on 06/09/2004 6:28:14 PM PDT by daniel18 (why doubt?)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: daniel18

>>what do you mean?<<

Whuh? huh? who? me? I didn't say anything! :^)


28 posted on 06/10/2004 8:38:16 AM PDT by dangus
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To: daniel18

OK... going back eight months...

>>Historical fact shows that their were many false prophesyers and many people named Yeshu. Also let us not forget that Jesus wasn't necessarilly as famous then as he is now.<<

Oh, but by the time the Talmud was written, he most certainly was. The Talmud's purging of Hellenist influences was very specifically aimed at the emerging Christian cult. If I read a Democrat's account of the 1980s, featuring a "Hollywood cowboy, named Ronnie" who led people astray, I have a pretty good idea who they meant.


29 posted on 06/10/2004 8:48:35 AM PDT by dangus
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