Faithful Catholics Returning to Humane Vitae?

The Annual Catholic Directory Years 1944-2003 | 7/10/03 | Me

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Year	Infant Baptisms	Marriages	Cuumlative Baptisms	Cummulative Baptism	Cummulative Baptisms/Marriage	Annual Baptism/Marriage	Ratio of Catholics Married In Church
1943	722434	289548		4699880	3.14	2.45	1.12
1944	710648	249140	14770410	4725321	3.26	2.83	1.17
1945	705557	245261	15404338	4796173	3.34	2.88	1.21
1946	705557	245261	16012434	4870393	3.42	3.01	1.18
1947	738314	345772	16659248	4937943	3.49	2.62	1.13
1948	907294	394593	17243217	4903826	3.60	2.38	0.90
1949	937208	373191	17658238	4838683	3.73	2.53	0.82
1950	943443	338512	18031443	4817950	3.81	2.88	0.78
1951	973544	328317	18362938	4836438	3.84	3.10	0.72
1952	1018303	319846	18580236	4869050	3.84	3.37	0.67
1953	1077184	303444	18701181	4920359	3.80	3.61	0.63
1954	1094872	303187	18719169	5022707	3.73	3.83	0.63
1955	1161304	313652	18711155	5136791	3.63	3.84	0.60
1956	1204982	324907	18638314	5249448	3.52	3.95	0.59
1957	1284534	325249	18488265	5341465	3.40	4.02	0.54
1958	1307666	314989	18178802	5431703	3.27	4.27	0.53
1959	1344576	319992	17787700	5523622	3.14	4.11	0.51
1960	1313653	319481	17319430	5588659	3.02	4.23	0.53
1961	1352371	312811	16900769	5638311	2.91	4.23	0.51
1962	1322283	311655	16433323	5677977	2.82	4.24	0.52
1963	1322315	329450	16001717	5707651	2.73	3.98	0.51
1964	1310413	352458	15575553	5718690	2.65	3.62	0.52
1965	1274938	357000	15175646	5711753	2.60	3.34	0.53
1966	1190842	360929	14844340	5705498	2.57	3.16	0.56
1967	1139248	371155	14636084	5697944	2.54	2.95	0.57
1968	1095172	405792	14461885	5674234	2.53	2.68	0.58
1969	1086858	417271	14341730	5616415	2.53	2.61	0.56
1970	1088463	426309	14202540	5545117	2.54	2.47	0.56
1971	1054933	416924	14067400	5467108	2.55	2.34	0.57
1972	975071	415487	13954365	5392624	2.58	2.21	0.59
1973	916564	406908	13917241	5318759	2.62	2.15	0.60
1974	876306	385029	13946980	5248766	2.69	2.32	0.61
1975	894992	369133	14115008	5205093	2.76	2.40	0.60
1976	884925	352477	14367992	5172605	2.83	2.53	0.58
1977	890677	341329	14663774	5152596	2.90	2.63	0.54
1978	896151	340489	14966219	5137056	2.94	2.67
1979	910506	345521	15106117	5111954	2.98	2.73
1980	943632	350745	15225305	5071818	3.02	2.80
1981	982586	353375	15310954	5023992	3.06	2.73
1982	965049	347445	15372672	4971199	3.11	2.81
1983	975017	347973	15448460	4912347	3.15	2.72
1984	947668	345973	15486880	4838074	3.22	2.76
1985	953323	348300	15561226	4759618	3.29	2.70
1986	941898	342440	15639146	4680352	3.36	2.74
1987	937947	341622	15704964	4594475	3.43	2.77
1988	946303	336915	15772507			3.10
1989	1044334	341356				3.36
1990	1147976	336645				3.51
1991	1180707	332468				3.59
1992	1193122	325789				3.18
1993	1036049	315387				3.26
1994	1029694	305385				3.37
1995	1029281	302919				3.45
1996	1044304	300582				3.46
1997	1040837	288593				3.51
1998	1013437	273700				3.73
1999	1022014	267517				3.85
2000	1031243	269034				3.75
2001	1007716	256563				3.92
2002	1005490	241727

The data above are from the Annual Catholic Directory of the United States and Canada. The data is for all American Catholic dioceses, including the eastern rite jurisdictions.

Column 1 is the year of the data (the data for the previous year appears in the Catholic Directory of any given year).
Column 2 is the number of Baptisms for that year.
Column 3 is the number of Marriages for that year.
Column 4 is a 15 year moving total of Baptisms.
Column 5 is a 15 year moving total of Marriages.
Column 6 is the ratio of Column 4 to the previous years Column 5.
Column 7 is the ratio of Column 2 to the previous years Column 3.
Column 8 is the ratio of twice Column 2 25 years later to Column 1 of that year.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

That's an interesting story about your father. It's sad to hear. But on a positive note, I think attitudeshave changed a great deal. In the Knights of Columbus, converts are held up as good examples.

Several of the most devout men I've ever known, including my late father-in-law, are, or were converts.


sitetest

[Maximilian]

It was forced on them. They wanted a Church marriage, but the old pastor said no.

Nothing wrong with that.

The Church treated me like a second-class citizen."

He WAS a second-class citizen -- he wasn't a Catholic. Am I supposed to walk into my local temple and tell the Rabbi to start treating me like a 1st-class citizen? I don't think so.

The Church should be humble; it has every reason to be.

Ah, but individuals don't? They can be as arrogant as they want? They can walk into churches they don't even belong to and start dictating policy?

The problems in the Church today are the problems of individuals. Each one of us needs to be humble. But it is not true, as you say, that the Body of Christ has reason to be humble (except imitation of our Lord).

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

In our archdiocese, the general rules are: Catholic marriage may only be contracted by practicing Catholics who are not cohabitating; baptisms may only be performed on children of practicing Catholics who are in a sacramental marriage.

When my brother and his wife wished to get their two children baptized (he and his wife were not married in the Church), it took a whole lot of exception-making to get it to happen. It only happened as a result of my father's strenuous intervention. That was fifteen years ago. The rules are adhered to even more strictly today.

At least in our archdiocese, it is unlikely that many babies born out of wedlock (where the relationship is not first regularized by Catholic marriage) are being baptized.



sitetest

[Desdemona]

He WAS a second-class citizen -- he wasn't a Catholic. Am I supposed to walk into my local temple and tell the Rabbi to start treating me like a 1st-class citizen? I don't think so.

Max, this is uncharitable. Converts are no less Catholic than Cradles. Not at all. And Jews treat their converts quite well, as a matter of fact. At least the men. Since Judaism is passed through the mother, that's a different kettle of fish.

[wideawake]

Lots of people were hurt by an Arrogant Church.

I'm sorry, but this is all a bit small-minded.

I have been insulted and talked down to on several occasions by nasty, emotionally immature clergy as well as been treated rudely or insensitively. One recent example: I was required to take a class on baptism before I was permitted to have my daughter christened - a silly rule my local ordinary insists on without any room for a parish' discretion. The official class I took was given by a priest in another parish than mine. As it turned out, all the people in class besides my wife and I were RCIA students and my wife was the only pregnant woman in the class. The priest mentions to the class that the Church prefers to baptize a child as soon as possible after birth. Someone asked why.

The priest went on to tell the class, in front of my eight-months-pregnant wife that "babies can die just like that" and snapped his fingers. He then went on to regale us with tales of stillbirths and SIDS cases that he had hurriedly baptized. My wife was almost in tears as this man painted a vivid picture of her worst fears in graphic terms. I was livid.

That never made me decide to stop attending Mass - get back at unpastorly priests by insulting God? That's the kind of response that someone who just doesn't care about their faith in the first place makes.

Giving up the Eucharist in a childish act of retaliation is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[wideawake]

The best Catholics are converts. I say this as a cradle Catholic from a long line of cradle Catholics on both sides of my family.

[sinkspur]

Giving up the Eucharist in a childish act of retaliation is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Yeah. My old man was a child, I guess.

You, sir, have the tact of a bull elephant. It's a very good thing you're not in any kind of pastoral position.

[fatima]

Thanks for the ping Desdemona.

[Maximilian]

Max, this is uncharitable. Converts are no less Catholic than Cradles.

He wasn't a convert. He was a non-Catholic. According to Sinkspur he didn't convert until many decades later.

And Jews treat their converts quite well, as a matter of fact.

Not true, of course, since Orthodox Jews (the only real Jews in my book, i.e. the only ones that follow halakh) don't even recognize the very concept of "convert" except in very limited circumstances.

[Maximilian]

The best Catholics are converts.

We weren't discussing converts, but non-Catholics. Two different categories.

But as far as your statement goes, I hear this a lot, but I disagree. Converts often have the most enthusiasm. But they don't have the deep-down intuition about the real meaning of the faith which is not intellectual and often not even spoken. Enthusiasm unbridled by humility can be destructive.

[Thorondir]

Why does such bitterness and hatred for the Catholic Church have to drip from your every post? It's wierd, man.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

On ecan avoid these Baptism classes by getting permission from your parish to have the child baptized elsewhere.

[wideawake]

You, sir, have the tact of a bull elephant.

I'll heartily acknowledge that, but I'm also reminded of the old adage about glass houses.

Do you really believe that abandoning the Eucharist for decades as a response to one man's stupid comment is a rational and adult thing to do? Really?

[wideawake]

On ecan avoid these Baptism classes by getting permission from your parish to have the child baptized elsewhere.

Not really, since we wanted her baptized in our local parish. My pastor told me that the diocese always checked up on these things and that, although he knew it was silly to require the class, his hands were tied and he needed to have a letter on file from the teacher.

He pointed out that we would be under special scrutiny since he was baptizing my daughter according to the Tridentine Rite.

[wideawake]

Re: Orthodox Jews.

A friend of mine's sister became an Orthodox Hasidic Jew. She was baptized a Catholic, but her mother was a convert from Judaism to Catholicism - so his sister was considered a Jew according to their law.

Orthodox Jews are very welcoming to converts and Jews who return to their heritage - they are extremely hospitable and kind and willing to overlook beginner's mistakes, etc. - but there is one thing that causes some problems.

The Orthodox Hasids have very complex marriage customs and most of them prefer that their children marry into a family which has a few generations of acknowledged scholars in it. Converts and teshuvim (returning Jews) are usually starting from scratch - their families have no reputation within the community, they have a dearth of social contacts and relationships within the community and therefore their marriage prospects are often limited to other converts and teshuvim.

This can tend to create some unhappiness and social status issues.

[Onelifetogive]

The only conclusion possible...

Only a very dense researcher (or someone extremely biased) could look at a few columns of data and make that statement. No other conclusions are possible???

[Onelifetogive]

I believe the Catholic position in birth control is finding its way into some evangelical families.

That is nuts! Big evangelical homeschooling families - Yes. Related to "lack of comfort" or "Catholic position" with respect to birth control - LOL!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Fine provide a better one and back it up instead of engaging in ad hominem. What the hell is your problem anyway?

[ACAC]

Obviously these families are not using birth control. I know for a fact some of these people think birth control is wrong.

[Onelifetogive]

Fine provide a better one and back it up instead of engaging in ad hominem.

I have read many excellent ones already posted. Immigration, conversion, changing data collection standards, changing marriage / baptism / attendance rates, etc.

What the hell is your problem anyway?

Liberals are idiots because they take little bits of data, twist it, use it to justify their agenda, and claim that no other conclusions are possible. When I see that kind of behavior on FR, I will point it out so that FReepers will be better educated and able to maintain our intellectual advantage.