Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ460.HTM ^ | Dave Armstrong compiles quotes from Martin Luther, John Calvin, et al.,

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a loser will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

BigMack

[JesseShurun]

okay Skippy, I will. I know that you have difficulty comprehending whole paragraphs and I should have been more cognisant of that fact. Also the double vision is a problem after a couple cases isn't it?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Your words are like an empty scabbard, the absence of cloud in the wide Kansas sky. Were we in Kyoto, you would be worshipped by saffron-robed Buddhist monks and stone-faced Zen masters as the "no-mind", having achieved a state of perfection through the elimination of all rational thought.

BigMack

[JesseShurun]

Sounds tempting, but why go there when I can stay here and have you stalk me?

As to "rational thought", now would that be based on Aristotle's philosophy or Plato's, or even Philo's, because Socrates and Plato closely allied the knowledge of isotes- geometrical equality- the foundation of the physical cosmos- with dikaiosyne and sophrosyne and if we are going to define the absence of rational thought, I really need to know which one you mean, and if Philo's, well then we have to bring in the Jewish idea of it, now don't we, Skippy?

[MarMema]

I am open to more discussion. I refuse to allow you to drag my church into an alliance with your church's excessive mariology, so I posted agreement with the doctrine with what I felt were important cautions.

The eagerness with which your pope and many in your church rush to classify us as "the same" as you, a demeaning approach which denies us our own doctrine and church separate from yours, refuses us respect for who we are, and tries to box us into some sub-papist classification in the vatican's earthly institution, has made me overly cautious about these things.

This is not your fault, though I have seen a few posts from you along these lines. It has been a trend here for quite some time. We are considered merely fodder to boost your membership numbers and cause your vicar to be exalted for foisting his idea of unity upon us and succeeding.
When we have resisted this approach and protested that we are not the same church, things have turned ugly.

It is the FR Protestants who have given us the respect of being a different church and allowed us to exist with our own doctrine and beliefs. They may argue with us about doctrine but they don't demean us by denying we have our own, and they don't try to force theirs down my throat, at least.
So there is a short history lesson for you about my experiences on this forum and an explanation about why I am extremely hesitant to agree with anything posted from your church on this forum. Which I believe was your initial question.....

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You're the one stalking me, you posted to me on this thread first, you must be too drunk to remember. When you lay down tonight don't lay on yer back, you could drown in yer own puke, it ya have any left after ya flung it all over FR today.

[JesseShurun]

so erudite and eloquent, words befitting a great great intellect indeed, alsost equal to the Hermantic mantra from the starting gate, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Show up and spew your vile poison at me or my friends again, and we'll have to go another round, but Skippy, seriously, don't mope over losing a battle of the wits, you were unarmed. Next time, instead of a beercan, pick up a clue

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The eagerness with which your pope and many in your church rush to classify us as "the same" as you, a demeaning approach which denies us our own doctrine and church separate from yours, refuses us respect for who we are, and tries to box us into some sub-papist classification in the vatican's earthly institution, has made me overly cautious about these things.

Amen.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I have never claimed a great intellect, you're the one who does that. I'm just a good old common sense boy, and my common sense tells me, you with all your high and mighty opinion of yourself, you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions written on the heel.

Now run along and play with yer phoney friends, and take your vile poison with ya.

BigMack

[Ex-Wretch]

Well, after checking out the verbal sparring going on between you two, if you were both women, I'd have to yell:

Cat Fight!!!!

Let it be. Amen?

[JesseShurun]

well no, I don't have your experience with pouring waste out of my boot, but no doubt in the establishments that you frequent, that's considered the equivalent of an olympic sport, especially if you can accomplish it at closing time.

Hey is that you on that tv show putting ferrets down your pants! Cause I really really like that show. Is there something else I can help you with here Skippy, cause I want to go watch it

[JesseShurun]

he wants to serve up his version of a big beefburger, like him eat one for a change

[malakhi]

I've found his posts to be polite, to the point and he has not slandered or personally insulted anyone.

You mean aside from

you either don't understand Orthodox theology as well as you would like others to think you do, or you do know the historic Orthodox position but yet you obscure it in an attempt to (as if it were possible) counter the Catholic teaching on this age-old issue. (#179)

and

Maybe you don't attend the Divine Liturgy as you should, if you are, in fact, Orthodox. (#180)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Jesse its too bad your gonna be the last person I get in a flame war with on FR, you just don't have it boy, I'm not even warmed up and I'm bored with ya. I gotta go, be sure to watch for my opus!

BigMack

[malakhi]

No, not a dodge at all. Actually, I did post a response to #s 160 & 161, but did so, inadvertently, I think, in another thread. #155 posted on 07/07/2003 5:08 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid. ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/934893/posts?page=155#155)

Actually, you did not post a response to OP's #160 and #161. The link you gave above is to your #155 on this thread. In fact OP was responding specifically to the arguments made in your cut-'n-paste from the Catholic Encyclopedia article. I'd be very interested in seeing you address the specific points he raises.

[malakhi]

but it would be nice to see you address the topics on threads in your own words (i.e. no cutting and pasting)

You mean like Patrick's #155? Did you criticize him for this? Or is it simply a matter of whose ox is being gored? People from both sides make use of cut-'n-pastes. So what?

[JesseShurun]

be sure to watch for my opus

Okey dokey Skippy, put some pictures of them ferrets in there for us will ya, and the picture on the door in the bar, that has a little man with pants on, is where you want to do your business from now on, if you can find it

[connectthedots]

Tha6t Christ was born of a virgin cannot be reasonably disputed. As to whether or not she remained a virgin even is irrelevant to the deity of Jesus Christ and really warrants little, if any time spent in speculation. Whether Mary had other chilren fathered by Joseph has no bearing on the church or ones faith in Christ.

[MarMema]

As to whether or not she remained a virgin even is irrelevant to the deity of Jesus Christ and really warrants little, if any time spent in speculation.

Thanks.

[MarMema]

Thanks to you also. :-)