[sinkspur]

I think I really needed to see these - including but not limited to the poor Sound of Music, :) - in order to bring some clarity and balance to what I've been reading on the religion forum.

Williamson is the dark underbelly of a cult which is outside the Catholic Church, and will continue to be as long as sinister characters like Williamson call the shots.

As sitetest said, you'd think Lefebvre could have done better than elevate an anti-semitic misogynist like Willliamson to the episcopate.

[huskyboy]

Williamson is the dark underbelly of a cult which is outside the Catholic Church, and will continue to be as long as sinister characters like Williamson call the shots.

When you have heresiarchs going to mosques to pray, kissing the koran, and praising "Kirchentag", it is a sign that the post-conciliar church needs to get its own house in order before expecting reconciliation, let alone call a group "outside the Church".

Objectively speaking, the post-conciliar religion is a separate religion, thus putting itself outside of the Church "which has the means of salvation". So, as far as I see it, it really is in no position to demand anything. Now, if the heresiarchs (e.g. Kaspar, Ratzinger, Hoyos) manage to confession and abjure of the heresies of Vatican II, then they could actually have some leverage.

Williamson apparently understands something many post-conciliars here do not: the issue is not just about the Mass. It's about the Catholic faith. What you see in most "Catholic" schools is the lack of such. Who's teaching in those schools. Where's the faith in the seminaries? What about the churches? I don't see much of it in any of the diocesan churches, which is why I bailed out.

So much has been made of the U.S. supporters of SSPX being extremists. Well, at the chapel where I go to hear Mass, I don't see any sedevacantists around. So, either I'm the only one or there are a few closet sedevacantists. But, from what I've heard, a large contingent in Europe is, and they're driving force behind blocking reconciliation: for they said if it took place on the wrong terms, they would leave.

Nice to know you and sitetest can give those p.c. signs of disapproval for those adhering to the Catholic faith of all times, rather than the post-conciliar faith.

[ultima ratio]

Neither you nor sitetest do anything but slander people. Where are the proofs for any of these accusations and slurs?

I am not a fan of Williamson's particular viewpoint--which is to the right of me--but he is not what you contend. You have consistently misrepresented his views--and that is nothing short of dishonest.

Nor is he the leader of a "cult", as you suggest--he is a leader in a traditionalist movement that has the Vatican falling over itself to reach some kind of rapprochement quickly.

Why? Because it knows the Society teaches nothing new, holds no radical views or doctrines, and is the living embodiment of its own Catholic past--relentlessly opposed by the modernist radicals now in power. This has proved a major embarrassment to Rome.

No, the real revolutionaries and cultists are the guys you pal around with--the gay bishops who endorse gay Masses, the lefty bishops who confuse political correctness with the Catholic faith, the same people who concocted a Lutheran Mass for Catholics.

I ask you--who's really more radical--a pope praying with witchdoctors and animists, or Bishop Williamson celebrating the old Mass?

[ultima ratio]

"As sitetest said, you'd think Lefebvre could have done better than elevate an anti-semitic misogynist like Willliamson to the episcopate."

As I have said, you'd think JnPII could have done better than elevate gay and heretical bishops like Weakland and Kasper, etc. to the episcopate.

You sure you want to go down this road? If so, you lose.