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To: agenda_express
OK, and this is still the problem I have with it (aside from my being Catholic and it being at odds by default with what I believe) is that it seems that no matter what we do after we are saved or born again, we go to Heaven. I just can't wrap my mind around that one.
74 posted on 05/05/2003 1:33:19 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Conservative til I die
OK, and this is still the problem I have with it (aside from my being Catholic and it being at odds by default with what I believe) is that it seems that no matter what we do after we are saved or born again, we go to Heaven. I just can't wrap my mind around that one.

Nor can I. Although, at one time, I did.

One of many troubling psssages in Scripture is where Our Lord speaks on the hard road and the narrow gate to enter to salvation; and the few that go that way.

And in the same passage, the wide and smooth road that leads to destruction and the many that go that way.

Also, St Paul's reflection on his own struggles. When he spoke about a concern that his own faith might become "shipwreck"...well that does not neatly fit with some of the ideas I see expressed here.

Wonder what that Apostle was possibly thinking about?

78 posted on 05/05/2003 2:56:16 PM PDT by don-o
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To: Conservative til I die
OK, and this is still the problem I have with it (aside from my being Catholic and it being at odds by default with what I believe) is that it seems that no matter what we do after we are saved or born again, we go to Heaven. I just can't wrap my mind around that one.

Let me preface my next statement by first letting you know that there are a few of us (non-Roman Catholics) on this board who, contrary to some on this board, don't believe ALL Roman Catholics are going to hell (DUCK - INCOMING!)

Anyhow, as for the comment that, "it seems that no matter what we do after we are saved or born again, we go to Heaven," you are right. However, there is a BIG difference between "claiming" to be saved, and "being" saved. If one is truly saved, the Holy Spirit lives in him (see Romans 3, 5, Romans 7:18 [For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.]) and the process of conforming to Christ will continue to happen through our lives.

Even though we are still in a sinful world where we will continue to sin until we are glorified with Him, our will (if saved) comes under his control when we are TRULY saved. (Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." also Ephesians 1:11)

Ultimately it boils down to this: since Christ's blood became a covering for our sin, our true acceptance of Him allows us to have peace with God, and because of that peace, we will one day be with him - and thus, be like him (since God cannot look on sin). See also Matt 7:17-20 (a good tree does not bring forth evil fruit).

If we believe that we can somehow earn our way to heaven, Paul says we are mistaken (Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." also 2 Tim 1:9, James 2:13-26) There is also a passage to the effect that "our best deeds are but filthy rags to God" - although I can't recall the exact scripture offhand. Thus, we are saved UNTO good works so that He is glorified and others may come to Him (Matt 5:16, 1 Pet 2:12).

80 posted on 05/05/2003 3:07:32 PM PDT by agenda_express
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