EASY BELIEVISM

biblelineministries.org ^ | Hank Lindstrom

[Codie]

No,the rock has always been Peter.

[DouglasKC]

Paul apostasized from the faith of Jesus and set the direction for the apostasy of the Gentile followers of Jesus for the millennia to come.

I think Pauls writings were difficult to interpret but they are logically consistent with the rest of scripture. Peter understood this and how Pauls writing would be twisted into an understanding of lawlessness by those with a different agenda:

2Pe 3:15 And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation (as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
2Pe 3:17 Therefore, beloved, knowing beforehand, beware lest being led away with the error of the lawless, you fall from your own steadfastness.

I think if Paul were actually teaching lawlessness or other heresy that Peter would have taken the opportunity to denounce him. Instead he defends Paul and puts the blame rightly where it belongs.

[drstevej]

*** he [Jesus] realized that he had failed.***

Poor Jesus? Nah, He said He came to give His life as a ransom for His sheep.

***I believe scripture.. the OT and the teachings of Jesus***

Obviously you pick and chose the words of Jesus you like.

I urge you to cease your blasphemy against God and the Messiah, Jesus.

[ET(end tyranny)]

No,the rock has always been Peter.

ALWAYS????? Really???? I didn't see Peter's name mentioned once in the verses I listed from the Old Testament. The Old Testament does predate the New Testament, doesn't it? In which case, how can the rock 'always' have been Peter??? Unless of course you are saying that Peter is God?????

[Codie]

Yep,always.

[P-Marlowe]

That is why Jesus' mission failed.

I had my suspicions that you were not saved before. Now I am certain of it.

Jesus failed?

What Church, if any, do you attend. I'd like to steer clear of it.

Thanks.

Marlowe

[Gamecock]

Bump for later reading

[ET(end tyranny)]

I think if Paul were actually teaching lawlessness or other heresy that Peter would have taken the opportunity to denounce him. Instead he defends Paul and puts the blame rightly where it belongs.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Peter understood this and how Pauls writing would be twisted into an understanding of lawlessness by those with a different agenda:

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

No one 'twisted' that 'quote' EXCEPT PAUL!

Isaiah 59
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

There is a considerable difference in doctrine and content, between these two verses. One has the Messiah coming and 'cleansing' the sinner (Romans/Paul) and the other has the Messiah coming to those who have 'repented and cleansed themselves!'(Isaiah)

Did Paul merely mis-quote Isaiah?

[PFKEY]

May I ask a question?

How would you read this verse?

Matt.16
[23] But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

If I were to read this in the same manner as you read V.18 then Peter is Satan.

Surely Christ didn't build his church on the rock called satan.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Obviously you pick and chose the words of Jesus you like.

I pick the ones that are backed up by scripture. (Which is the Old Testament)

Messiah's arrival will be accompanied by the following:

• Universal peace and freedom.
• Resurrection of God's people.
• Regathering of the clans of Israel.
• The Torah will go forth from Jerusalem.
• Rebuilding of the Temple
• Resumption of animal sacrifices in the Temple, and
• All nations will come to the land of Israel to observe Succoth.

Jesus came and afterwards....

• Instead of universal peace came the wars...of 66 c.e. and 135 c.e.
• Instead of a resurrection, over a million Jews were killed and thousands sold into slavery.
• Instead of a regathering, there was the scattering of the Jews in the diaspora.
• Instead of the Torah going forth from Jerusalem, the Torah was declared dead and replaced by the Greek New Testament.
• Instead of a Temple being rebuilt, one was destroyed.
• Instead of the continuation of animal sacrifices, they ceased.
• Instead of all nations observing Succoth in Jerusalem, the Holy day was prevented from being observed in Jerusalem and the Gentile church replaced the Biblical Festivals with their pagan holidays

Which explains why the law is still intact. All has NOT been fulfilled.

Matt 5:18
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. As you can see from the list, all has NOT been fulfilled.

As I said earlier, it wasn't Jesus' fault, that his ministry failed. Israel wasn't right with God.

Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent. 13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Israel wasn't right with God, and not enough repented.

[drstevej]

You misunderstand HIs first coming and will be in trouble at HIs second coming unless you repent.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Isaiah 11
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

With what "tool" will the Messiah to effect change?

Judge (implies voccal)
Reprove (implies vocal)
Rod of his mouth
Breath of his lips

"And a righteous king and taught of God is he that reigneth over them: and there shall be no iniquity in his days in their midst (in the nation of Israel…remember Israel needed to merit the Kingdom through righteousness), for all shall be holy and their king is the Lord Messiah. For he shall not put his trust in horse and rider and bow (not in a military Messiah), nor shall he multiply unto himself gold and silver for war, nor by ships shall he gather confidence for the day of battle ... For he shall smite the earth with the word of his mouth even for evermore ... He himself also is pure from sin, so that he may rule a mighty people, and rebuke princes and overthrow sinners by the might of his word. And he shall not faint all his days, because he leaneth upon his God: for God shall cause him to be mighty through the spirit of holiness, and wise through the counsel of understanding, with might and righteousness' (Psalms of Solomon, 17: 35-42).

I think it is you who misunderstood Messiah. My posts have been about repentance.

[anncoulteriscool]

One of the criticisms of "easy believism" is a un-emphasis on repentence. You just sorta change your mind about who Jesus was and just sorta make Him your pal. Ultimately only that personand God know for sure if they are a true follower of Christ. If they realy anguish over their sins or not.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Stumbling block ping.

[P-Marlowe]

If they realy anguish over their sins or not.

If old things are passed away and all things have become new, of what value is your anguish? If God remembers our sins no more, what good does it do us to dwell on them?

Is there a requirement that you dwell on your sinful past or does God merely require you to commit to changing direction?

And is it your sincere anguish that saves you, or is it the blood of Christ which cleanses you from ALL sin?

[drstevej]

You confuse events related to His second coming with HIs first coming.

[anncoulteriscool]

Your right...the Bible does not teach repentence!

[1 spark]

Jesus made the following prediction:

Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

The word "iniquity" comes from the Greek word "anomia". Thayer's Greek lexicon defines it this way:

BDB/Thayers # 458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from 459; TDNT - 4:1085,646; n f AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4060 1, transgression of the law 1; 15 1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it 1b) because of violating it 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

And Strong's Lexicon defines it: "illegality (i.e. violation of the law)"

Basically, Jesus predicted, that because of false prophets, illegality or violation of the law and a condition of without law will abound.

Looks like he was right on target.

[jwh_Denver]

Ok, so you guys who don't like Easy Believism, what must a man do to be saved if not simply believe? How many conditions other than belief are there?

Simple believing is all it takes. It is man's nature to repudiate the grace of God which essentially means you cannot work yourself into righteousness. With Jesus Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven the Good News of the Gospel of Christ is that righteousness is a gift from God to all believers in Christ. Because this grace of God sounds too simple here comes laws, rules, regs, works, to essentially allow a person to work themselves into their own righteousness. Not one bit of it makes anybody (Christians) righteous before God because they ARE ALREADY righteous. When a Christian begins to understand grace and that he has received the gift of righteousness then the Works of God will begin to flow from them.

[dsc]

One of Satan's neatest tricks is to convince us that our personal interpretation of Scriptures can be relied upon.

What did Jesus teach? That faith which is not accompanied by action--striving to refrain from some things and practice others--is not the kind of faith he was talking about.

Striving for obedience flows from faith naturally. It's not an "either/or" kind of thing. To say that "faith without works is dead" is to say that faith from which works do not flow is not what Jesus meant when he said "faith."

Of course, you can't work your way into Heaven through deeds in the absence of faith, but the absence of some deeds and the manifestation of others is a sure indicator of the absence of faith.

"what must a man do to be saved if not simply believe? How many conditions other than belief are there?"

Faith. Faith is the condition, not the intellectual act of "belief." And faith leads to works--including the avoidance of sin and the near occasion of sin--as night leads to day.

This whole thread is a tempest in a tea-pot, all over the wrong question.