Posted on 05/04/2003 12:10:50 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
Ok, so you guys who don't like Easy Believism, what must a man do to be saved if not simply believe? How many conditions other than belief are there?
My challenge to you is that if you don't believe in what many call "Easy Believism" then perhaps YOU don't believe the Gospel at all! Hmmm?
Comments?
What did Jesus teach?
WDJT
Wrong! It is easy to see from scripture that salvation comes from doing God's will. Following His commandments.
Genesis 26
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:
Clearly shows that Abraham, kept the commandments, statutes, and laws, and obeyed God.
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Shows the connection between righteousness and the law.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Luke 1
5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
What does 'the way' mean?
the way <3598>
Lexicon Greek 3598
3598 hodos {hod-os'} apparently a root word; TDNT - 5:42,666; n f AV - way 83, way side 8, journey 6, highway 3, misc 2; 102
1) properly
1a) a way
1a1) a traveled way, road
1b) a travelers way, journey, traveling
2) metaph.
2a) a course of conduct
2b) a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding
Matthew 5:17-19, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
The heavens and earth are still here..... so is the law.
Matthew 19:16-19 (Mark 10:17,19) (Luke 18:18,20), ". . . Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him . . . if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments . . . Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself "
Luke 10:25-28, ". . . Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him. Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Possessing and inheriting eternal life is always connected with doing something……
Matthew 7:21,
"Not every one . . . shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
John 7:49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
Acts 21:20
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Acts 21:24 (James talking to Paul)
Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Acts 21:28 (talking about Paul)
Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
You will find the expressed will of the Father in the Law, Prophets, and Writings…the Jewish Bible.
Mark 10
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Ecclesiastes 12
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
If it were possible for man to be saved by keeping the commandments, then by golly Jesus died for nothing.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James equates faith with works. Obedience to God is the response of a repentent person.
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
Peter foretells dire circumstances for those who disobey the gospel of God.
Heb 5:9 And being perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him,
Eternal salvationto all those who OBEY him.
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Obey the gospel of Christ.
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you yield yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves to him whom you obey; whether it is of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness.
Obviously belief is built partly upon an active component called obedience. We learn what to obey from scripture.
Obedience is LETTING God live in and through us...letting him express his love and will in our lives. The outward appearance of this is that "we" will appear to be following God's laws.
Words of Christ in Red.
Now if you would please answer my question... What did Jesus teach?
Satan changes the true gospel into a counterfeit message by addition and subtraction. In other words, Satan adds human works or effort to the plan of salvation in order to make the message of none effect (I Corinthians 1:17).
Paul ought to KNOW! Since he used subtlety to CHANGE God's words. And also eliminated (subtracted) other words of God.
Look at these two verses??
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
As it is written. To what does Paul refer?
Isaiah 59
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Do you see the difference????
They differ considerably in doctrine and content! One has the Messiah coming and 'cleansing' the sinner (Romans/Paul) and the other has the Messiah coming to those who have 'repented and cleansed themselves!'(Isaiah)
For Christians, Isaiah 59:20 presents a serious theological problem because in the third chapter of the Book of Romans, Paul insists that no one can merit his own salvation. One of the most fundamental underpinnings of Christian theology is the Pauline teaching that only the cross, not our own good deeds and heart-felt repentance, can save.
Paul bases this assertion primarily on the verse from Genesis 15:6, "And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness." In both Romans 4:3 and Galatians 3:6, Paul sets out to prove from this verse that faith alone is what saves man, not his observance of the Law. Paul insists that this verse clearly demonstrates that Abraham was considered righteous through faith alone and not by his deeds. This quote, however, is taken completely out of context. A little further on in the Book of Genesis, the Torah describes the very fabric of Abraham’s "faith." In Genesis 26:5, the Bible declares that "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My Commandments, My statutes and My laws." It was Abraham’s unwavering obedience to the commandments of the Almighty in spite of the challenging tests placed before him that revealed his unyielding faith in God. Paul got it wrong.
Paul therefore rearranges the words of Isa. 59:20 so that Romans 11:26 appears to quote Isaiah to read that it will be the Redeemer (Jesus) who will turn away sin from Jacob. This, however, is not what Isaiah 59:20 says. As mentioned above, the original verse proclaims that the Messiah will come only to those who have repented of transgression.
It is not difficult, however, to understand why Paul found this revision of the prophets words necessary. In the next verse Paul continues to tamper and misquote the Jewish text to make it congruous with the alterations of the previous verse.
Romans 11:27 was designed to appear as a continuation of Isaiah’s words when he writes:
Romans 11
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Although the first half of this verse, "And this is my Covenant unto them," is correctly quoted from the first part of Isaiah 59:21, the second half has totally disappeared! Replacing this latter half of the verse which Paul expunged, is the interpolated text of Paul’s inventive mind, "When I shall take away their sins." This segment was invented by Paul in order to support his modifications of the previous verse (11:26).
Isaiah 59
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
The Messiah will come only to those in Jacob who turn from sin. Such turning from sin will be accomplished in these last days (Daniel 9 timetable) through Messiah’s words. (Jesus preached "repentance" by the way). Such words, if kept in the mouth of God's people, and not withdrawn from their hearts and minds, will cause them to walk in the Commandments of God. Such will produce a righteous remnant in Israel which would qualify as the necessary remnant thus representing the Holy Nation and the Royal Priesthood to whom the Messiah would come. Such spiritual condition by the people of Jacob would be necessary to fulfill their calling as a light to the nations. This concept is totally foreign to the ideas of Paul who prided himself that he was no longer under such "Law" but under grace.
Do you believe Isaiah was a prophet of God anointed with a message "forever"?
How long is "forever"?
Is Paul, a Pharisee of Pharisees, considered somebody’s "offspring"? Of course. Then it is very evident that Paul allowed to happen in his life, what he was warned by Isaiah not to do,…he let the Words of God vanish from his mouth.
Paul apostasized from the faith of Jesus and set the direction for the apostasy of the Gentile followers of Jesus for the millennia to come.
Jesus taught repentance!
Matthew 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Matthew 11:21
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
I believe scripture.. the OT and the teachings of Jesus. I do not accept the gospel of Paul, which teaches false doctrine.
If it were possible for man to be saved by keeping the commandments, then by golly Jesus died for nothing.
Wrong! Jesus was the Messiah, but Israel was not ready. Israel didn't reject Jesus per se, Israel rejected the idea of repentance. That is why Jesus' mission failed. That is why the kingdom has been delayed. That's why Jesus started talking about how he had to suffer and die, because he realized that he had failed. He knew scripture said he would then have to die. The time was right, but Israel wasn't right with God.
It wasn't his fault. Israel just wasn't ready.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deuteronomy 32:18
Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Deuteronomy 32:31
For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deuteronomy 32:37
And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
1 Samuel 2:2
There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psalm 18:31
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
Psalm 28:1
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
Psalm 42:9
I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
Psalm 62:7
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Psalm 71:3
Be thou my strong habitation, whereunto I may continually resort: thou hast given commandment to save me; for thou art my rock and my fortress.
Psalm 89:26
He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
Psalm 92:15
To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
Psalm 94:22
But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
Looks to me like the Rock/rock is God, NOT Peter.
Why? Because the truth is hard to accept?
Matthew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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