Satan joins the Moonies!

[Elsie]

I don't despise all Calvinists. Just you and your "merry" band. I>

I do not consider myself a 'C' person, but I feel that I am a merry person.

Do I get included, too?

[drstevej]

Praise to the MODS!

[Elsie]

Oops!

bi-une

[Corin Stormhands]

I don't despise all Calvinists. Just you and your "merry" band.

Hey, Rev, ksen and I aren't Calvinists. But could you find it in the warmth of your bosom to hate us anyway?

[Illbay]

I don't hate you.

I despise you.

Look it up.

[Corin Stormhands]

Oh well, that makes it allright then...

[Illbay]

Of course it's not all right. When you say and do despicable things, it is inevitable you will be despised.

[Alex Murphy]

When you say and do despicable things, it is inevitable you will be despised.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Regardless, I am glad that, if I am to be despised, that I am despised for my Savior and my Lord...

Psalm 22:6-8

6: But I am a worm and not a man, A reproach of men and despised by the people.
7: All who see me sneer at me; They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
8: "Commit yourself to the LORD; let Him deliver him; Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him."

1 Corinthians 1:26 - 28
26: For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27: but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
28: and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
28: so that no man may boast before God.

[Illbay]

I sincerely doubt that God has ever "chosen" anyone who attacked His Saints.

You might want to look elsewhere for your approval.

Try looking lower.

[Alex Murphy]

I sincerely doubt that God has ever "chosen" anyone who attacked His Saints. You might want to look elsewhere for your approval. Try looking lower.

As always, many thanks for the sincerity - and you were right! I looked lower, and found my approval!

1 Corinthians 4:3-5
3: But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.
4: For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5: Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

[restornu]

The council of these words in

1 Corinthians 4:3-5
3: But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.

4: For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.

5: Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

This is wisdom that all who harbor enmity towards those who worship the according to the dictate of their conscience should adheard too!

[Illbay]

If you're saying, in essence, "the Lord judge between me and thee," I'll take that, no problem.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Can you guys debate your faith and stand up under the beliefs of others that your faith is not true, if said debators do not use bad language and attacks without hitting the abuse button? I just asking because that is what you guys are accused of, I have never debated you guys before and am just wondering.

BigMack

[Illbay]

Speaking for myself, I never use bad language. I use "asterisks" and the "bashers" provide their own indignation.

Also, I don't really understand the point of "debating faith." Faith is faith; it is a personal thing that isn't readily debatable. You might as well debate the wisdom I showed in choosing my wife.

However, I have no problem personally with DISCUSSING what we believe, even comparing and contrasting. To me, a statement like "well, I understand you believe that, but I don't" is about as far as you need to go.

Most of us have SOMETHING to contribute to the spiritual understanding of others no matter what faith we profess. But this incessant need to "prove" to someone else that what he or she believes is incorrect is bizarre to me.

It says a lot more about the insecurity of those who are so obsessed, than anything else.

[restornu]

I think that 1 Corinthians 4:3-5 tells us how we should treat each other!

Why can't folks just live by this?

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

So why be on a forum like this where you know these things are going to happen?

BigMack

[Illbay]

Because FR is not a Religious debate forum.

Jim Robinson continually reminds people of this fact, but many still don't get it.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Because FR is not a Religious debate forum.

This it the religious forum part of FR.

Nevermind I will leave you to talk with other mormons here.

BigMack

[Illbay]

I repeat: Talk to Jim Robinson. He has been pretty clear on this point.

I am not for a second implying that there should be NO religious debate. But a great many people here think that's ALL it should be about, and further, their concept of "debate" isn't even legitimate. It's all about "proving" that their side is superior (interestingly enough, using their own subjective criteria as it happens) and anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

That's just not helpful. It's pointless.

And above all, I have made the point time after time, that there are PLENTY of places one can go to engage in rancorous debate on these issues. If FR was the only game in town I might understand, but it's not.

The RELIGION forum on FR was originally created to separate out religious news and discussion from political news, mainly because there were many people with not the slightest interest in religion, who bitterly complained that religion articles were cluttering up the place.

Yet as soon as it was created, some people took that as a cue that personal attacks, and attacks on religion were now sanctioned. Jim Robinson has hardly ever shown up on the politics forums to explain at length his views on how the debate on his forum should go, but he does from time to time appear here to do just that.

Yet too many people refuse to get it.

As far as what I, personally, believe, feel free to ask questions, I'll try to respond. Feel free to say "I don't understand how you can believe that because..." and I think that's perfectly legitimate.

But that isn't where these discussions invariably lead. Invariably, those who wish to "debate" me about my Church and my beliefs will post a bunch of material from dubious or even spurious sources, dare me to refute the material, then when I do, move on to yet another thread and start all over again.

That's why I am more convinced than ever of the pointlessness of rancorous "debate" on the subject of religion.

[Revelation 911]

Hey, Rev, ksen and I aren't Calvinists. But could you find it in the warmth of your bosom to hate us anyway?

Im still arminian - hang on lemme check - ......yep- (adjusting belt)