Rosary May Contribute to Unity Says Protestant Theologian

Zenit ^ | December 12, 2002 | Anonymous

[ultima ratio]

Date: 2002-12-12

Rosary May Contribute to Unity, Says Protestant Theologian

If Contemplated as a Christological Prayer, as Suggested by Pope

ROME, DEC. 12, 2002 (Zenit.org).- The rosary has found an unlikely fan in a leading Protestant theologian.

John Paul II's recent apostolic letter "Rosarium Virginis Mariae" states, "To go through the scenes of the rosary with Mary is like going to the 'school" of Mary to read Christ, to penetrate his secrets, to understand his message." The rosary can even promote ecumenism, the Pope affirms.

That is a position shared by professor Stephan Tobler of the University of Tübingen, in Germany, a Reformed evangelical theologian, Vatican Radio reported.

"I must say that I read it in one go," Tobler said of the apostolic letter. "It is a letter of a spiritual and theological depth that I wasn't expecting -- a letter that breathes an evangelical dimension, which has very much surprised me."

"The letter says that it is necessary to relaunch the rosary as a Christological prayer," he added. "In fact, it does so, from the first to the last line."

When the document alludes to "the grace Mary gives us when we pray to her," it speaks of the grace that God gives us almost from Mary's hand, "but with an 'almost' as if to say she 'is and is not,'" the theologian said.

"Therefore, it is introduced in this way in the dynamic of the God-Trinity, which I see as close to the sensibility of the Reformers who appreciate the figure of Mary, but only if it does not detract from looking at Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Father," he said.

In this context, the Reformation communities can be encouraged by the Pope's words, the theologian said.

"I think that the evangelical churches can rediscover Mary as the image of the person completely open to God with her 'fiat' [let it be done], with her 'Do whatever he tells you," with her standing at the foot of the cross, with her silent presence among the disciples," professor Tobler said.

"In this letter, the Pope emphasizes that the rosary, more than a prayer of words, is a contemplation of the mystery," he continued. "Certainly today's sensibility and quest is primarily to rediscover a place where the heart rests, where the soul contemplates the mysteries of God and also the ways in which this is possible. We, in our traditions, must rediscover the ways that are equivalent, the analogy."

Tobler added a note of optimism about ecumenism: "I am convinced that if Catholics pray the rosary as proposed in this apostolic letter, and if evangelicals recognize and rediscover without prejudices this new way of conceiving the rosary, then it will be a favorable occasion. But we must work on it."

[ultima ratio]

Aha! The other shoe drops. Now the rationale is made plain: the Rosary, that most Marian of prayers, is to be made more Protestant-friendly by the addition of "Christological Prayers". In other words, that most CATHOLIC of all devotions is to be adjusted to suit those who find prayer to Mary herself distasteful.

This is more or less how we got into the Novus Ordo mess. Now the Rosary will go the same route for the same reason and will most likely have the same result: very few converts and more and more alienated Catholics seething with anger.

Nice going, Holy Father. Maybe next you'll declare Martin Luther's birthday a Holy Day of Obligation.

[Salvation]

**a contemplation of the mystery,"**

No one can take this personal contemplation away from me.

[ultima ratio]

That's what you think. The plan in Rosarium Virginis Mariae includes special clauses telling us what to contemplate after the name of Jesus is recited in each and every Hail Mary, and then loading each decade down with "a special prayer for the fruits specific to that particular mystery." These are going to take various forms "to better adapt to different spiritual traditions and different Christian communities." The Fatima Prayer is out. But the glorias will be sung during the public recitations. There will even be some sermonizing by the priest who leads the recitation. If you can contemplate anything at all with all that activity going on, you would be the miraculous exception, believe me. Most of all, the idea is to deflect attention from Mary as Mediatrix of Graces, a belief held by Catholics down through the ages. Instead, we are to think more "Christologically"--as Protestants would.

This is more of the new religion fostered by this papacy. True Catholics will have none of it.

[chance33_98]

I though the pope was infallible though? :) (ducking for cover and going to get some coffee...)

[noahltl]

The Pope is considered infallible only when speaking 'ex-cathedra'. This is not one of those occasions. However, the bishops speaking in concert at a Council are also considered infallible in their pronouncements. What I continually see posted at this site is a lack of belief that Vatican II was infallible in it's pronouncements. So I am confused because it seems that many of the old Traditionalists believe in the doctrine of infallibility only if it fits their beliefs and concepts of the Catholic Church. If the doctrine of infallibility fails in Vatican II, then it fails with the Papacy as well, and all non-Biblical precepts of the faith fade away with the doctrine.

[ultima ratio]

Infallibility is restricted to ex cathedra statements only. The pope is in all else very fallible--as we can see by the ecclesiastical messes this one keeps making.

[ultima ratio]

Councils are not always infallible. Infallibility means a pope or council is assured divine protection under certain conditions. A council is only infallible when it officially declares dogma in a definitive way. Vatican II did not do this. It was a pastoral, not a dogmatic, council, and therefore its declarations were not binding on the faithful.

This is why its statements on the Mass were so quickly ignored after it closed. It had stated that Latin and Gregorian chant should be given primacy of place in any reformation of the Mass. This advice was summarily brushed aside by the Vatican with the introduction of the Novus Ordo in the vernacular several years later.

[ultima ratio]

correction: I should have said "divine protection from error" and not simply "divine protection" in my last post.

[sspxsteph]

All they are doing is trying to make it look like the Protestants have just as good of a chance to get into heaven as Catholics. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. You can do all you want t try to act like the new Novas Order; which is not hard, but you are still Protestant.

[ultima ratio]

It's good to remember that the preconciliar popes stressed that this did not mean you had to be Catholic to be saved.

[LiteKeeper]

Evangelical, Protestant NOT!

[Joshua]

"Protestant-friendly by the addition of "Christological Prayers". "

How do you make repetitive prayers to the dead more "Protestant-friendly"? Where do you dig up these people?

Is Vatican radio Romes answer to NPR? Give me a break...

[drstevej]

I am not familiar with this theologian but the University of Tübingen is a bastion of liberalism of all varieties. Is this guy an Evanglical (capital "E" as in Lutheran)? He certainly is not evangelical in any other sense.

In May of 1988 I visited the University of Tübingen with a friend who was a missionary with the Navigators who ministered to evangelicals ("e" as opposed to "E") on the campus. The theology department is one of the largest in Germany but at the time there were less than two dozen evangelicals and they were bombarded by liberals including Hans Kung.

The only evangelical on faculty then was Dr. Peter Beyerhaus a professor of world missions. Beyond that it was a wasteland theologically, IMO and the opinion of my friend.

It may have changed since then, but I would be shocked. Anyone who thinks the rosary will draw evangelicals to Rome doesn't understand evangelicals.

[ultima ratio]

I don't know anything about Tobler myself, but Kasper was professor of Catholic Theology at Tubingen. It figures.

[ultima ratio]

Zenit is a Catholic news agency. A stumbling block to conversion for many Protestants has long been Catholic Marian devotion. This reform deflects attention from Mary to Christ, so it would supposedly have more appeal for those contemplating conversion. As for praying to "dead people", we Catholics believe strongly in the communion of saints. That is to say, we DO pray to the saints for their intercession with God. We also pray for the souls of those who have gone before us to the next world.

[Joshua]

"A stumbling block to conversion for many Protestants has long been Catholic Marian devotion. This reform deflects attention from Mary to Christ, so it would supposedly have more appeal for those contemplating conversion."

The point is that it isn't just the Marian worship that is a stumbling block. It is the praying of a rosary no matter who you are reflecting on. It is the prayer to the saints and the lost souls.

To think that someone grounded in his faith would change because of redirecting of rosary prayers is absurd.

The differences between the Catholics and the Protestants are much deeper than what this so called theologian claims

[ultima ratio]

I don't disagree with you. The differences are great, but the trend in the post-conciliar Church has been to obscure the differences in the hope that Protestants will become Catholics. From what I can see, the opposite is happening. Catholics are gradually becoming Protestants.

[LiteKeeper]

dittoes

[LiteKeeper]

mega-dittoes