Pollster says he can't find Christianity transforming lives

Los Angeles Times | Published Sep 28, 2002 | William Lobdell

[RnMomof7]

Does the Calvinist Bible contain a different Prodigal Son story? In it, does the father go out after the son, and forcibly make him return?

Dave you do not understand calvinism or the parable

Calvinists believe in free will. Man will always do what he will do..and the elect will always will to come home..

[SoothingDave]

Of course, the Father did not force irresistable grace on the son; he is already a son. Irresistable Grace is for before he is a son in order to make him born of God.

So whether the son returned or not, he was still "saved?" That the point of the parable is that if you are good we'll have barbeque?

SD

[SoothingDave]

Calvinists believe in free will.

You believe in something you call "free will," but it is not free and can not exercise its will.

Linguistic obfuscation.

SD

[theAmbassador]

Good post

Thank you. Of course, all of those who are born of God are Predestined to be conformed into the image of the Son. Some of us just seem to enjoy getting dragged kicking and screaming a little more than others. Its that whole free will thing that needs to get beat into submission:

• Jhn 4:34 Jesus said unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

[RnMomof7]

What, are you related to Jessie, who also kept misrepresenting what I say? I have never once said that we do not need a Savior, I have never once said that I can save myself, I have never said that I can get by without the covering of righteousness of Christ. Sheeze.

No Jessie and I have our share of differences..we are not joined at the hip. But I do like him :>)

I did not say you said man did not need a savior. I did not read that in your post...I am simply trying to get you to think through your thought that all men seek after God.

BUT that being said your assertion that man wants the God of Righteouness ,the God that will change their heart and put HIM on the throne instead of themselves is silly..just look around you.

Men have a knowledge in their hearts that there is a god..on that we agree...but remember Eden? What was the "promise " that made Eve bite? YOU shall be as Gods. Men want to sit on the throne of their own heart. They do not want to cede Lordship of their life unless it is under their conditions.

So when the carnal , unregenerate man goes looking for a god he makes sure it is one He is comfortable with...a God that lets them stay married in heaven and have as many wives as ya want..Yep we have a god like that step right over here...A god that will "absorb "you into the godhead ..yep he is behind door number two...A god that will not make any judgements and deal only with "ethical behavior...yep look behind door 4

Men do not want to give up their seat on the throne of their life..they want to fashion heaven .They want to be gods

Pony what did Paul mean when he said "there is none that understand? " What blocks their understanding? What did he mean that" none seeketh after God?"

That is the issue ..I was not hitting at your belief in needing a savior

[computerjunkie]

Mom to CJ #947: I know you think that you believe in the sovereignity of God

I don't just think I believe in the sovereignty of God...I do believe in His sovereignty.

I know I am saved, and I remember vividly when it happened (even though it was a long time ago...I was just a little kid!). I know children can be saved, but I really don't think they understand all the words and exactly in what order the "process" happens! I honestly never thought about how it happened...I just know it did! (It's called "simple" faith...Luke 18:16-17)

11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. CJ How can that happens if mans will is sovereign?

It can't. I don't believe man's will is sovereign; God is sovereign. But I guess the questions I asked and the statements I made regarding predestination would lead one to believe I think man's will overrides God's sovereignty.

And thanks for your very detailed response to pe in #943.

Maybe you should start a thread on the doctrine of predestination. (Good grief...I can't BELIEVE I just said that!)

Your friend, CJ :-)

[ksen]

Linguistic obfuscation.

This from the king. ;^)

[DouglasKC]

Your explanation of election and your original statement clearly don't match. Your explanation is run of the mill Arminianism with nothing borrowed from Calvinism.
Do you want to reword your second statement about the Great White Throne too, or just let your heretical statement stand?

I'll let it stand. :-)

[DouglasKC]

Too bad you are not God Doug...cause what you THINK does not matter
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

You're exactly right. What I THINK doesn't matter a bit. What matters is what God thinks.

[malakhi]

Yikes! I get busy at work, and next thing I know this thread is up a couple hundred posts. Sorry for the delay in replying. My comments here will be brief, but we can discuss them further if you wish (probably won't be able to reply again until tomorrow night).

Who is described in Isaiah 53?

Isaiah 53 is about Israel, as a reading of it in the context of the whole of Isaiah will reveal.

Give me a few of these prophecies so I can see how you are intrepreting them.

I gave four of them in my #605.

You are the first Jew I have talked to who doesn't believe that I am an idolator for worshipping Jesus as the Mighty God. I'm just exploring your beliefs about this.

Here is a link you might be interested in. Page down to the paragraph headed "Jewish views".

[theAmbassador]

So whether the son returned or not, he was still "saved?" That the point of the parable is that if you are good we'll have barbeque?

If a man dies in a far away country, a man who has been born of God, who has the Holy Spirit of Promise, will he be cast away forever; will he be unborn of God and will the Holy Spirit of Promise be taken from him?

Will the Father see that his stomach is empty so that in humility he will return; will the Lord not scourge every son whom He receives?

[malakhi]

Maybe the fake Jew knows.

I've taken the time to review your posting history. For someone who professes to be a Christian, you do seem to spend a lot of time being deliberately offensive. Now, if you are interested in having a respectful discussion, fine. If not, then you may considered yourself ignored from here on out.

[malakhi]

Poor angelo, he missed out because he didn’t have the right commentary.

Poor angelo has been busy at work and hasn't had time to answer insults on the internet. ;o)

[malakhi]

Oh, and thanks for covering my back whilst I was away.

[xzins]

for what it's worth, an old army chaplain buddy is visiting from Oklahoma Sunday night. He was the Jewish chaplain, I was the protestant chaplain. We served together both at Ft Campbell with the 101st Airborne Division and in Germany with the 1st Armored Division.

I'm gonna have him translate this and if ain't nice I"m having the RABBI post to you. LOL!

[malakhi]

I'm gonna have him translate this and if ain't nice I"m having the RABBI post to you. LOL!

It is from scripture. Jesse will know why I posted this particular verse.

[RnMomof7]

Yikes! I get busy at work, and next thing I know this thread is up a couple hundred posts.

You mean you work:>)

[malakhi]

You mean you work:>)

LOL! Well, at least the people I employ do. Its good to be the boss. ;o)

Some days are busier than others...

[DouglasKC]

I might agree with you if I could figure out what Bible you're using. The ones I've read don't say anything what you just explained.

What is it you disagree with?

[RochesterFan]

All whim and arbitrary come down to are not having a fixed criteria. Does God have a fixed criteria for deciding who is Elect and who is not?

I am sorry that you have not found my answer satisfactory. All I can do (and am willing to do) is go as far as the Scriptures go. God has not chosen to reveal the precise criteria He uses for "His pleasure." From what He has revealed of His nature, I accept that His motives are in character with His nature - as a just and holy God. I would point out that a God of whom a finite human could have exhaustive knowledge would no longer be infinite. I submit that God has been explicit about His character and motives to give us sufficient justification to conclude that He is neither capricious or whimsical. Note that I said sufficient not exhaustive. I would humbly ask anyone not satisfied by the answer of the Scriptures to examine their motives and ask if they were trying to judge God. That is the core of Paul's answer to your objection in Rom 9:19-22. I do so as one forgiven for previously holding such an attitude. I am thankful that He taught me from the Scriptures not to do so. I am thankful that He has been patient and longsuffering as He works on my attitude.