Pollster says he can't find Christianity transforming lives

Los Angeles Times | Published Sep 28, 2002 | William Lobdell

[RnMomof7]

You didn't answer the question. Are there no Jews who got saved? If there were Jews who got saved before Jesus came to earth, how did they get saved?

Dave ...you are my friend ...but friend you do need to read the Bible..

The problem with Catholics is they want to be spoon fed...alot of the milk falls off the spoon on the way to your mouth:>)

Go read Hebrews 11..

[xzins]

I don't see anything about Abimelech and the Philistines of Gerar being "pagans" (at this point in history) in this passage. If I have missed it, you are welcome to point it out to me; but I don't think that we should be reading "pagan" into the passage if it is not there.

We are in the middle of studying Genesis in our church.

OP is entirely correct. In fact, by the chronologies given in Genesis, Shem, Noah's son, is still living at the time Abe goes to Gerar.

[RnMomof7]

So no Jew ever got saved? Why can't an aborigine be considered under the sme rules as Jews before the coming of Christ? To them, being in ignorance, it is like Christ never came. Or do you need to know that God condemns someone?

I didn't say Jesus wasn't essential. Stop lying.

Did I misunderstand you I thought you said that the pagans and the Jews could be saved without hearing about Christ and accepting Jesus? Did I misunderstand you?

[RnMomof7]

"Saved" means exactly what the Coast Guard does in the middle of a hurricane when it goes out to rescue a small boat that is in danger of sinking. They reach the small boat and then they rescue the people off of that boat. Those people have been "saved" from the storm. It really has nothing to do with them being "acceptable to the Coast Guard." The issue is that even if they were drug runners they had just been "saved."

Except dead men can not reach for that life preserver

[xzins]

I would rather be rescued.

I can't think of other religions that are saying they wish they could be rescued by Jesus....they all want to do it their way, I guess. In fact, I don't know of any of them that think the Jesus story is true. Ergo, in many ways it's a moot point.

But God has always been willing to allow folks to try to live a good enough life to earn their way to heaven, enlightenment, righteousness, etc.

I'd rather get rescued, though. Seriously. I screw up far too often.

[xzins]

When the coast guard throws you the life preserver attached to a rope, they have woken you up about being rescued. You see the situation before you. You choose to grab it or not.

[ksen]

The fact that you confuse the virgin birth with a human woman...

You better study up some more.....Mary was a human woman.

[drstevej]

Dead men don't grab the life presever!

[drstevej]

Actually the image is not a life preserver tossed by the Coast Guard. It is of a fisherman casting a net and dragging us in the boat.

[xzins]

hey, drj, rn already beat you to it with an identical comment. I responded in 806. But why not throw out the baby with the bathwater?

saved = rescued

are we ok that far?

[xzins]

hardly.

it'd take an amyraldian to think fish want to be rescued from the water.

they want to be rescued from the frying pan. go build an analogy around that.

[drstevej]

The analogy was from Jesus' words. The natural man doesn't want to be rescued from sin either.

Billy Carter was once asked if he went to AA to give up drinking. He said, "No, I just wanted to learn to be a social drinker rather than an alcoholic."

[drstevej]

***hey, drj, rn already beat you to it with an identical comment.***

The confirmation of two witnesses, xzins!

[RnMomof7]

You know what they say about "great minds" :>)

[xzins]

The analogy was from Jesus' words

This I gotta see. Give me chapter and verse where Jesus tells a story about rescuing fish from the water.

[RnMomof7]

Fallen man is not "drowning " he is already dead X



Matthew 8:22 - "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."

Romans 11:15 - "For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

John 11:25 - "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live "

Luke 15:24 - "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry."

[xzins]

i can see you all are in argumentative mode.

saved = rescued

and you want to argue about the Coast Guard saving living or dead people from a sinking vessel based on a simple illustration.

Effectively, I can say you've missed the point. I pray it was accidental.

I've got to go buy some beans to grind in my coffee mill. See ya in a couple hours.

[theAmbassador]

That point is just as extreme as those who point out that if someone were consistent in their Calvinism then why bother evangelizing at all. -- ksen

Arminianism: We believe in the power of dry bones to hear. Therefore, by faith in ourselves and man, we preach to the sick.

Calvinism: We believe in the power of God to give dry bones life. Therefore, by faith in God alone, we preach to the dead.

No, ksen, jude's statement is not extreme; it is at the heart of how a man approaches evangelism.

[Itsfreewill]

Steve yes my own words condem me, yes I did confessed and apologzied to all. The reason I did not close IFW at the time I felt I would never use anymore. So I just dismissed it!

When you question it I realized I had private mail I did not want to lose.

As you insist I did ask for Itsfeewill closed, accept restornu was closed. I don't care I like IFW.

This all started because I said you have pure rancor in your soul, and that ire and love cannot dwell together. As you continue to lecture the LDS, but we are not allowed to have a voice in showing you how your contempt for another is not of God.

Many accepted my apology, but the first opportunity that you felt offend, you took my apology and tried to condemn me with it!

Well I unleast this tirade from you Steve, many of you have
said you accepted my apology, or no problem, or many have multi names etc. Will I had ended and cleansed this charade!

I do feel good for I had cleared the air! And if you continue to knock my faith, it rest on you!

Now about underroo, I knew I saw that name on FR, you knew I did too accept it was not your handle it was a post that undermind the LDS garments with pictures, you Steve had many opportunies to inform me that UNDERROO, was post about underroo/underware, not a handle.

I really don't like spin, but I became pretty annoyed for no matter where I posted be it on religion forum or another I had a shadow! When I was another name I had no stalkers. It was nice to enjoy FR with out contention! When I was restornu I was a straight shooter, yet as another name I was out from under the oppression that many of you like to inflick.

I know it is not of the Lord. I am sorry for now you have ammunition to beat up the LDS more. I have offended my sisters and brothers and made the road here a little harder. In away it is hypocrital for those of you know who have other handles on FR.

I promise not to violate the rules here again, I am sorry I did not closed one of them, but I know and the Lord knows I was not going to use it again. Now it is only by default I am now IFW.

I apologzied to you Steve for MY misunderstanding for saying you had multiname here on FR!

[xzins]

Way to go, IFW. All one can ask is putting the cards on the table. You've done that.

So, do I understand you to say that restornu was accidentally closed and that IFW will be your permanent name from now on?

Many have confessed to multiple handles. I don't really mind as long as they're honest about it when detected. Many have wives, other family members who use FR. When they sign on, that's the handle that's up at the time. Easier to just post than go logout, login.

What denomination were you before LDS? Didn't you say you BECAME an LDS?