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To: Quix
Dust most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices

The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances

A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.

Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?

All of these things were predestined by your creator

He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.

He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.

Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father

Have you read the twin studies?

I read one that blew me away

Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars

Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.

I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"

God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.

Because of the fall men will never seek God

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see

So God gives those that are His a New heart

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...

Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ

I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity. If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?

138 posted on 09/17/2002 11:46:28 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The Calvinist/predestination vs Armenian etc. issue like many others in THE CHURCH will probably turn out to have a different mix of BOTH/AND validity than anyone could anticipate.

ALL of us see dimly in the glass.

You folk have settled on one side of this issue. Others of us have settled on the other side.

Maturity is sometimes measured by the amount of paradox or conflicting evidence or even confusion one can handle responsibly, productively, peacably, rationally.

Many people need to have all the little details all tidied up in some sort of predictable box in order to feel safe, secure, comfortable . . . true for people on both side. However, one side has the hazard that such a need can quickly and easily become overblown and blinding to SOME things God might want to share with such individuals. Though this also happens on the other side, the philosophical/theological perspective of the other side does not inherently lend itself to such a result.

It could be said quite reasonably that over emotionalism; worshipping at the altar of emotions; proud displays of emotionally loaded actions/events; etc. can blind those on that side to their pride or the weakness of being led around by somewhat fickle emotions far too often.

One great pastor I once had commented that he thanked God we were saved by faith and not feelings. But he also sure thanked God for the feelings God triggered every so often.

We all have a measure of free will. God The Father fiercely protects it against one and all within the context of that rule of free will He set up. I know, I've tried in ages past to blunt some people's choice options when I felt they were taking themselves and loved ones off the deep end in very destructive ways--and they were. But suggestion and coercion can be very different things.

An interesting paradox is that the Ultimate Commander In Chief usually limits Himself to subtle communications, gentle communications, encouragements, subtle warnings--rarely commanding. On occasion He thunders.

On the other hand, satan is eager to command, insist, threaten, use fear and real and unearned guilt--to coerce every way he can think of and to instill, install and blanket with as much heavy handed control as he can manipulate one and all into. He knows then that rebellion is sure to follow.

Some of us because of our inadequate parenting the first 1-8 years of life have a pretty strong addiction to control orientations. Churches on all sides of many theological issues are full of control freaks. And, almost any theological position can be bent to the service of a control freak if they are clever enough. Some theological positions are tailor made to do that with . . . just as some group, audiance/leader contexts even some supernatural demonstrations of authentic moves of Holy Spirit seem tailor made to do that with--from the perspective of the control freak at hand.

God The Father and our Lord and Savior by His Spirit slice through all that control freak and other garbage most easily when we are walking hand in hand, earnestly becoming ever more sensitive and obedient to that still small voice--to The Master who declares as fact that MY SHEEP KNOW MY ****VOICE****.

In terms of free will--to the degree we do NOT have free will, then we have no responsibility for the choice. To the degree we have free-will, we have responsibility for the choice.

As Viktor Frankel says--there's no freedom without responsibility. It's also true, there's no responsibility without freedom.

May all of us walk closely enough to The Lord that He will say well done for how we responded to His Still Small Voice.
140 posted on 09/17/2002 12:21:06 PM PDT by Quix
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