Posted on 09/02/2002 8:09:58 PM PDT by crystalk
We are frequently told that Muslims "also believe in Jesus," or that "Jesus is mentioned in the Koran."
Is this true?
Wa..all, not REALLY! The Koran, and Islam, have a figure called Eesa son of Mary, but remember that for a man to be surnamed son of a woman implies he is illegitimate-- father unknown or would not claim him. An insult.
We are told there that the Christians blasphemously worship this man as a god, and furthermore that it is blasphemous to say that either he--or we-- are sons or children of God, for that implies [he says] bodily existence and procreation on the part of the deity. In any event, Allah, at least, is definitely childless and this is stated many times in the Koran. Thus he cannot be the same as the Christian God, who has not just Jesus as first born, but all of us as children of God also.
Furthermore, this Eesa has quite a different life history than Christians might suppose. He seems to have had at least two wives, and possibly offspring.
He was never put on the cross at all, much less died on it. Pilate was in cahoots with Eesa, it seems, and had some poor devil out of his prisons crucified at a place on private property with the people kept well back, so that an impostor who merely resembled Jesus could be crucified.
In the meantime, Jesus himself was picknicking with his disciples atop the Mount of Joy! [called Nabi Samwil by the Arabs]...
Yet it IS taught that this Eesa did ascend into heaven, and Muhammad saw him there. He was said to have reddish hair and an extremely, almost comically freckled face.
Since Eesa did not die here on Earth yet, which he like all men must do, we are told that he will yet come back to Earth in the last days to help the Mahdi war against and kill off all the Jews and Christians.
Only then will he die, after having lived another 40 years on earth.
There is much else, but I thought I had better say at least this much because I find Americans often ignorant of these things.
This man has little in common with the Jesus in the Christian bibles.
It is the constant repetition of an insulting formulation every time his name is mentioned, that I am alluding to. Suppose the New Testament, even though conceding a virgin birth, nevertheless called him "Jesus the Bastard" every time his name comes up. That is in effect what the Koran is doing.
Answer: Great question, and the answer is that God did NOT beget Jesus as your first clause indicates.
God did not create Jesus. If He has been created, then your conclusion would be totally correct. A
created being cannot be equal to God for it would not be eternal.
The confusion comes from an unclear translation in the King James Version of the Bible regarding John
3:16 in which the KJV says, "For God sent his only begotten Son" The Greek word here is "monogenes"
which comes from "mono" meaning "one" and "genea" which means "kind." "Genea" is very similar to
"genow" which is the verb "to beget, to bear" hence the confusion. All modern translations rightly
translate John 3:16 as "For God so loved the world that God gave his ONE AND ONLY SON" This is a
much clearer translation of the greek word which means "One of a kind" or "totally unique."
"God did not beget, and is not begotten".
I wonder what Muslims say when they explain how God/Allah got here in the first place.
The entire Dome of the Rock, may it perish speedily in our days, is full of hate speech against the Christians who had been almost the whole population of Jerusalem when the Muslims conquered it in AD 638.
Hate speech in stone, a sermon in stone against Christ, and it must come down before He can return to Earth.
When even this did not endear him to the then city fathers, he said that Satan had made him utter those two verses.
But of course it was the same spirit that also made him utter all the OTHER verses of the Koran, every one of which is Satanic to the core.
The Koran quotes the baby Isa ('Jesus', but 'Isa' looks more like Esau):
[19.29] But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
[19.30] He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
My own translation of John 3:16 would say, that G-d sent his Unique, ONE-OF-A-KIND Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish [eternally], but have everlasting life [khai (ad-)olam=the life of, or until, Olam].
This is a reference both to the Quality or Kind of Life the believer would have (that of Olam=Planet of God) and also to the length of life (agelong, FAPP forever).
Hardly insulting. A devout Moslem uses exactly the same formulation when referring to Mohammed. It translates roughly as "peace be upon him".
And the teachings in the Koran are not that remote from Christianity. Most of them can be found in Gnostic Christian writings; for example, the doctrine that the crucifixion was a fake can be found in the Second Treatise of the Great Seth. Marcion or Basilides would have considered their own beliefs closer to Islam than to trinitarian Christianity. Which of course is one reason for the rapid success of Islam in Egypt and the Levant.
Jesus’ Guidance and Authority: Surah 5:46; Surah 43:63
Surah 5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída) 005.046 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
Surah 43. Gold Adornments (Az-Zukhruf) 043.063 When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me.
Jesus’ High Position Here and Hereafter: Surah 3:45
Surah 3. The Family Of Ìmrán (Al-Ìmrán) 003.045 (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).
Jesus’ Ascension to Heaven (reference to Resurrection): Surah 3:55-56; Surah 19:33-34
Surah 3. The Family Of Ìmrán (Al-Ìmrán) 003.055 (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. 003.056 As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.
Surah 19. Mary (Maryam) 019.033 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! 019.034 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.
Jesus’ Miraculous Abilities: Surah 5:110,112,114 ; Surah 2:253
Surah 5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída) 005.110 When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic; 005.111 And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims". 005.112 When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven ? He said: Observe your duty to Allah, if ye are true believers. 005.113 (They said:) We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses. 005.114 Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. 005.115 Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures.
Surah 2. The Cow (Al-Baqarah) 002.253 Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will.
Jesus’ Birth to a Virgin (Mary): Surah 3:42-49
Surah 3. The Family Of Ìmrán (Al-Ìmrán) 003.042 And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation. 003.043 O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship). 003.044 This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto thee (Muhammad). Thou wast not present with them when they threw their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou present with them when they quarrelled (thereupon). 003.045 (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). 003.046 He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. 003.047 She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me ? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. 003.048 And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel, 003.049 And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.
Whatever, the Muslims have a higher opinion of Jesus than liberal Protestants do.
Now I have seen it all, I have had a number of threads pulled [but none recently], but none has ever returned from the dead as it were.
Now I will go crazy till I find out who had it put back! LOL. Wish I could say I had friends in high places, but I guess I will have to settle for "readers." LOL
IMO it is because we have disbelieved, we have abandoned our faith, that God has allowed Islam to surround us, and to hound us, and to confound us, ground us, and de-profound us.
I think you are mixing the Islamic and the Jewish scriptures. It is in the Talmud that Jesus is referred to as a illegitimate, and as the son of a prostitute. They spit when they mention His Holy Name. Muslims bow their heads at the name of Jesus and say "peace be upon him." They refer to Jesus as the Son of Mary because they think He was born miraculously, without a father.
Another reason, I think, for the rapid spread of Islam in the Levant was the hopeless wrangling within Christendom about the nature of Christ after the first Councils - the single and dual nature - and the nature and procession of the Trinity. Anyone who could not grasp it, and give the right answers, got thrown out of the Church and regarded as a heretic. If they next Bishop had a different view, you had to change again ... Torrid theology in the Eastern empire.
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