Skip to comments.True and False apparitions in the Modern Church
Posted on 06/29/2002 4:50:52 AM PDT by NYer
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She became involved with a List_Serv group that shares messages from seers in the US and Canada, all of whom are adults. It unnerved me in that none of these apparitions or messages were sanctioned by the church. These "followers" impressed me as a cult. Even more alarming was their discrimination of priests who were either "pro" Medjugorje or against.
For your discussion.
One problem I have with it is that it states that there are visions in Medjugorje every day... I don't think that is true? But the messages are all the same, and when read, seem like the BVM is telling us that all religions are good and the same.
Although there are good fruits from Medjugorje (rosary, conversions), I do see a divide among people because of it as the author states. Among the believers, Medjugorje can almost be a litmus test with which they judge the orthodoxy of others - even how they judge priests. I just ran into this (again) a few weeks ago. The licit apparitions (Fatima and Lourdes) compliment our Faith and are not the pinnicle of it as Medjugorje (and other not licit apparitions) seem to be among their adherents. I also question why quite a few believers in these (false, IMO) apparitions tend to move and sequester themselves instead of remaining in the population at large where they could "witness" as the Bible tells us to do. Can't be a light to others if no one out of your circle is with you. I would imagine that another "fruit" of Medjugorje may be the division of families. In my experience with Medjugorje (which dates to the mid 80s), I noticed that a lot of the believers also believe in almost any ongoing visionary.
I think a lot of this stuff is where the Protestants rightly see some Catholics "worshipping" Mary and losing sight of Jesus. I do not believe that Lourdes and Fatima has the same fruit - they led to a greater understanding of Jesus and not the worship of Mary.
Our Lady of Knock, Queen of Ireland, pray for us.
I've been to Knock! It was wonderful, but I was sort of underwhelmed by the modern architecture - but most of the Catholic Churches in Ireland are the same (thanx, Henry VIII).
I was very impressed with the article and the comparison of average time of the apparitions, age of the children, amount spoken by the Blessed Virgin Mary.
This is all very new to me; I have never really delved into it much in the past. And these comparisons give me a little bit to go on -- in looking at what the Church looks at and how it rules on these apparitions.
And here: "Unity Publishing" - I like this site because it has a bit on all of the "famous" apparitions.
E. Michael Jones says that the devil will cause people to do that which seems good if he can keep them from a greater good.
What happens to peoples' faith when they finally wake up and learn they have been deceived and to realize they have spent so much of their time and energy promoting falsehoods? Some of them get so desperate to bolster their flagging faith that they rebound from one false apparition or seer to another. They take donations for lies. That is fraudulent.
There is a guy on the catholic newsgroup that is so orthodox you can find nothing to fault him on except he is obsessed with some seer who says some really whacked out things. Few catholics challenge him on it and when they do, he has an answer for everything. He has made a nuisance of himself trying to get people to write to the Vatican to get the ugly business approved. There are other sinister overtones as well to the point that they are probably on a watch list of some sort.
All this from a faithful catholic who attends mass every day and does everything else right.
I should have saved some of his nonsense as a good example of how an otherwise orthodox person can get led astray.
"Saint Peter; The pronouncement will be simple, George, because you and John Mark are simple. And God is allowing me to make it, George, and my love for you and John Mark will be forever. The pronouncement will be as follows, George: In eternity, before He created His Creation, God created two creatures with immortal souls, whom He created unioned to each other, inseparable, and whom He created simultaneously. He spoke George to George and George understood and He spoke John Mark to John Mark and John Mark understood. And He said to them both, I am God. They knew and loved each other instantly and they both loved God together. And they wanted God to love them both. And they wanted God to help them to love Him more. They are two unique creatures whom God created with immortal souls, they are neither angels nor humans, they are God's two Children of Love. They have been written about throughout God's entire Holy Scripture. None of God's Creation precedes them. They are God's witnesses and they are God's creatures with immortal souls. For them is reserved, in their simplicity, the Very Especial Infinite Love of Almighty God. George is God's Child of Peace and John Mark is God's Child of Justice and they both are God's Children of Love. And there are only two of them. And they are George and John Mark. As spiritual beings with immortal souls whom God created in eternity before He created His Creation, He entered them into their human bodies, their human natures, their human presences, at the moments of conception in their mothers' wombs. They are with each other and with God for all eternity. It will be pronounced, George, verbatim. Through God's Gift of Infallibility in His Beloved Pope, John Paul II, you and John Mark will be Catholic Dogma, George. God's use of you and John Mark is so vast, George, that you both are simple. You know it is me, Saint Peter, giving you this locution and to you you experience receiving it as normal to you. It will be normal for you, George, to hold my hand and go for a walk with me, because you are a child. And John Mark is a child also. You and John Mark do many tasks for God, and you and John Mark do many errands for Him. And God is isolating His Beloved Pope, John Paul II, now, in His Gift of Infallibility. The above, Mark, is excerpted from George's Letter to Father Alexis re: God's New Priesthood of Love. It is subject to neither argumentation nor debate, it is subject to discernment. I await, as George does, the final decision of Pope John Paul II. If you decide for yourself, you don't believe in "George of George [and John Mark]", you have done exactly what I already warned you against: you have set up your own little Papacy, with Pope Mark. But, you are on the verge of being a sedevacantist anyway, so, maybe you are the real Pope. I follow John Paul II and I am admonishing you to do the same. That is it, there is no further discussion between you and me about this, ASK THE POPE."
Here's his website:
Home page is very orthodox looking. You have to dig deeper. I don't know that he has made any converts to his cause; haven't checked on him lately.
Am I being sick if I see homosexual overtones/undertones in the above drivel? If so I apologize for having my mind warped by scandals.
As if we didn't have enough to contend with in the church.
Long reading but thorough.
As if we didn't have enough to contend with in the church. This is what bothers me. The sex scandals deflect from the spiritual scandals. I've been very upset for a long time that the bishops have trampled over the authority of the Bishop of Mostar and permitted the apparition industry to thrive throughout the entire world. They should be guiding us better and be clamping down on those in the flock who disseminate and promote anything that is not approved by the church.
It is the responsibility of the church all the way to the top to correctly discern and warn the faithful. Why should we have to do it?
I'm not trying to plug my website; some freepers know about it; for the sake of those who don't know the whole story about Medjugorje, I repost it occasionally.
Thanks for posting the article btw. It is excellent and long overdue. How many will read and take heed?
I wish it was available in English.
Catholics are not obligated to believe in any of the apparitions.
I know that.However, the Church does believe in them,and I simply want to know why they feel they are worthy of belief.
It seems the apparitions have brought many back to the Church but also widen the gulf between Protestants and Catholics.
I'm having an extremly hard time seeing God in all this. Any guidance would be helpful.
Indeed it can. And the "certain number" in question is zero. There are no privileged observers.
What next? A discussion on genuine versus false newage psychic hotlines?
Is that you God!?!?!
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