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US Cardinal soon to be outed as homosexual...Which one?
O'Reilly, NY Post, The Diocese Report, others... ^

Posted on 05/20/2002 7:49:43 PM PDT by Polycarp

On Fox tonight O'Reilly said a cardinal is about to be outed as an active homosexual. Rumor has it Bishop Bruskiwiecz sent a letter telling this Cardinal to "resign, or else..."

NY POST: WHICH American cardinal recently disclosed to insiders a confidential letter he received from a bishop urging the cardinal to resign for the good of the church? The cardinal is being urged to quit before his much-gossiped-about homosexual indiscretions are uncovered by the media . . . WHICH ranking priest of a major diocese predicted over a boozy dinner the other night that if the media outs this particular cardinal, "then the dominoes will really start to fall"?


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KEYWORDS: aaaaairball; aaaairball; aaairball; abortionlist; academialist; catholiclist; educationnews; historylist; homeschoollist; newjersey; prolife
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To: MissAmericanPie
Are all these guys gay?

No.

But sometimes one does wonder:

Bay Area priests fear crackdown on gay seminarians

101 posted on 05/20/2002 9:11:52 PM PDT by The Iguana
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To: Polycarp
The preservation of your own freedom is critical re: the maintenance of the innocence of your children and the progression of your entire family to a place at the right hand of the Father in the world yet to come....
102 posted on 05/20/2002 9:13:39 PM PDT by tracer
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To: sinkspur
Fair enough. Seminarians should learn Latin, know what is involved in the Tridentine rite, how it is celebrated, and something about the cultural issues of Traditionalist Catholics. Forcing people to accept it over the Novus Ordo would not make a lot of sense given the present liturgical customs, policies, and norms of the Church in America. When one considers the evolving Latino-Anglo linguistic split developing in some quarters of North America,however, Latin may turn out to be a diplomatically useful language liturgically in the Church of the future.
103 posted on 05/20/2002 9:14:14 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: The Iguana
The title of the link you provided represents an interesting albeit unfortunate choice of words.... 8~)
104 posted on 05/20/2002 9:15:17 PM PDT by tracer
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To: Polycarp
I pick "All of the Above"
105 posted on 05/20/2002 9:16:55 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Howling,

I don't think anyone should be forced to perform Tridentine Mass. I do think a well-rounded seminary experience should include at least some exposure to it.

It's a higher priority for some of us to put stronger limits on the "innovation" that seems to be going on in Novus Ordo as performed in all too many parishes these days.

Personally, I could even live with a straightforward vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass - come to that. I admit that learning fluent Latin poses an extra barrier to worship for both prelate and congregant.

But then that wouldn't allow for some of the curiousities we've seen in Mass in recent years.

106 posted on 05/20/2002 9:20:49 PM PDT by The Iguana
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To: Polycarp
You do your namesake proud. My best to you.
107 posted on 05/20/2002 9:21:23 PM PDT by exit82
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To: Polycarp ; All
http://www.sunspot.net

Scandal stirs anger, sadness among local Roman Catholics: References from pulpit, fears of failed leadership

By Marcia Myers and Dennis O'Brien
Sun Staff

May 20, 2002

Roman Catholics in the Baltimore Archdiocese listened respectfully yesterday as priests drew lessons from the unfolding clergy child abuse scandal and dealt with the fallout.

But parishioners emerged from Pentecost Sunday services with plenty to say, too, after a week that began with the shooting of a Baltimore priest in connection with decade-old child abuse claims. By week's end, Cardinal William H. Keeler had issued public apologies for the handling of that case and for sexual abuse by other priests.

Around the region yesterday, Catholics spoke of disappointment, change and, more than anything, of sadness.

Most focused on the case of Dontee Stokes, who was a teen-age worshipper at St. Edward Church in West Baltimore in 1993 when he accused the Rev. Maurice J. Blackwell of molesting him. Records show that church and law enforcement officials believed Stokes had been molested, but Blackwell was never charged.

After Blackwell underwent three months of psychiatric evaluation and treatment, Keeler reinstated him as pastor of St. Edward. In 1998, Blackwell admitted to having sex with a minor more than 20 years earlier, and he was suspended indefinitely.

Stokes, now 26, is accused of shooting and wounding Blackwell last Monday, apparently in a rage over a lack of apology from the priest.

Beverly Carrera of Towson, a lifelong Catholic and a psychiatric nurse who works with adolescents, said she believed most local Catholics expected stronger leadership from the archdiocese.

"I feel very sad that they didn't deal with this issue when it happened," Carrera said as she arrived yesterday for Mass at the Cathedral of Mary Our Queen in North Baltimore. "It makes it very difficult now when my 12-year-old grandson asks questions. I have no answers."

The scandal should renew questions about celibacy requirements for priests and the ban on female clergy, she said.

Keeler celebrated Mass at the cathedral yesterday but made no reference to the dispute. Late last week, he issued a number of apologies: during a Mass at the Basilica of the Assumption, in an opinion article published in The Sun, and on a visit with Stokes' grandfather in his West Baltimore home.

Having "dedicated ourselves to seeking solace for victims and fair punishment for perpetrators," Keeler wrote in the article, "I apologize for instances in which our efforts have failed."

"The real problem is in the cover-up," said Ernest Laszlo, a member of the Church of the Nativity on Ridge Road in Timonium. "I say open things up, open them up completely, and show concern for the victims of these cases."

Criticism was delivered from the pulpit, too.

The Rev. Michael J. White, Nativity's pastor, wrote in the church bulletin that he was outraged by the abuse and the church's response to it.

"I'm appalled that an accused predator was so quickly returned to his parish. ... I'm appalled that the young man in question was never assisted by the church," he wrote in the bulletin, which is distributed each week before Mass.

At St. Ignatius Church, a parish run by the Jesuits on North Calvert Street, the Rev. Clement J. Petrik told parishioners in a Mass broadcast over WBAL radio that the renewal of faith that is a traditionally part of Pentecost is a necessity. He said the scandal has left many feeling "betrayed."

"Today we need a born-again faith," Petrik told worshipers. "Instead of renewal, there is suspicion. Instead of peace, there is turmoil. Instead of goodness, there is the stench of evil.

"Instead of faithfulness, there is betrayal."

After Mass, parishioner Richard Gorman said the scandal has left him angry with archdiocese leaders who seem overly concerned with protecting their own. Church officials who have imposed a strict moral code on generations of Catholics have failed to live up to it themselves, he said.

"They want to be forgiving of their own, but they're trapped by their own past teachings," Gorman said. "The chickens have come home to roost."

Dennis Dunn, another parishioner at St. Ignatius, said that Keeler must be held responsible.

"Whether he knew about it or not, he's in a position where he should have known," Dunn said.

Others say they have no doubt that while there might be problems with the leadership, the church itself and its core teachings remain strong.

"There probably are problems in the leadership of just about every organization; the church is no different," said Ryan Milburn, who worshipped yesterday in Timonium.

"Everybody is angry, but we've got to remember that the anger should be at the crime, not at the church," said Reisterstown resident Lynn Eareckson, outside the Cathedral of Mary Our Queen. "Cardinal Keeler is doing the very best he can, and he's always done his best."

"In hindsight, I wish better choices had been made," said Lynn Runk of Westminster as she left the cathedral. "But we believe people can heal. I think [the archdiocese] believed people - the accused priest - could change and there could be healing. I think it's a work in progress."

At St. Edward Church yesterday, the Rev. Sam Lupico said in his homily that "a storm is raging outside St. Edward's, but the spirit is stronger. Do not let anyone convince you there is something ugly in this house; you are beautiful."

At St. Bernardine's Church in West Baltimore, parishioners said they would not let the most recent scandal keep them away.

"I still believe in my priests, and I still believe in my church, and I still believe in my God," said Dorothea Parnell.

Sitting in the front of the church were Stokes' grandparents, Bertha and Charles Stokes. The two are longtime parishioners and said after Mass that they hold no animosity toward the church.

"This has been a spiritual awakening," Bertha Stokes said. "I wish there was some kind of way to test these priests before they become priests."

Charles Stokes described his recent meeting with Keeler as cordial.

"He was like a shepherd should be, he was shepherding his flock," Stokes said.

The Rev. Edward Miller, the church's pastor, made reference to the shooting in his weekly "Pastor's Page," which is printed in the church bulletin.

Miller likened the shooting to a stone tossed in the water that could have rippling effects.

"Part of our spirit wonders when it will all end," Miller wrote. "Part of our spirit fears it will never end."

Sun staff writer Gerard Shields contributed to this article.

Copyright © 2002, The Baltimore Sun

108 posted on 05/20/2002 9:22:23 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: tracer
Certainly. And for that reason I have my CCP and know self defense. Nonetheless, a shepherd must be willing to lay down his life for his sheep.

And if ANYONE touches my kids, there will never be a civil lawsuit or criminal case. Only a funeral.

109 posted on 05/20/2002 9:24:26 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: The Iguana
Recent joke I heard: "Arm all kids in the parish with pepper spray."
110 posted on 05/20/2002 9:26:28 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: The Iguana
"We have people of homosexual orientation, but there is no homosexual culture here," Daoust said of his Berkeley seminary. "If there's a heterosexual subculture, or any subculture, that's a problem. Some of our rigid reactionary candidates would like to form a subculture of ultra-rigid Catholicism where they are only the true believers"

Geez!! This is the guy from the Jesuit School of Theology! Thank you God....thank you thank you thank you for keeping me away from these people.......

111 posted on 05/20/2002 9:28:49 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: goldenstategirl
a heterosexual subculture

uh oh, we better close the blinds and lock the doors! Mrs. Polycarp and I have our own little subversive heterosexual subculture brewing right here in our own humble domestic church. What would that idiot from the Bay think? Horrors.

112 posted on 05/20/2002 9:32:53 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: polycarp
One more warrior for I turn in....

I'm pumped. =)

113 posted on 05/20/2002 9:34:05 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: goldenstategirl
a subculture of ultra-rigid Catholicism

Sounds like heaven...literally...

114 posted on 05/20/2002 9:38:52 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
It may be true that a cardinal is... but I don't wish to indulge in idle speculation which may tar everyone with the same brush. Granted, I think that the coverup actions of certain bishops are every bit as heinous as the actions of the priests who molested children, because those actions knowingly perpetuated evil.

However, accusations alone should not serve to destroy the reputations of some possibly very holy men... this has the possibility of turning into a form of mass hysteria, such as the "child abuse" accusations against many daycare centers. And look what happened to Frank Fuster in Florida once Janet Reno got a hold of him... even though he is almost certainly innocent, he is rotting in jail.

What all this boils down to, I suppose, is: gossip and idle speculation can cause some serious harm to those who don't deserve it.

115 posted on 05/20/2002 9:42:48 PM PDT by austinTparty
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; sinkspur
I can't imagine ANY reason why someone preparing to be a "Catholic" priest would not want to attend and learn about the liturgy of the Church...

That reminds me of a Priest once who came to the First Friday Rosary Group I used to attend. The lady doing the fourth mystery got a coughing spell, so I took over. I asked the Priest to lead us in the Fifth Mystery. He said, "I'm not familiar with this particular devotion.".

I couldn't imagine a Priest who didn't know the Rosary. I guess they don't cover that at Assumption Seminary in San Antonio. I'm not sure exactly what they cover there these days, but it would seem to me that there are just some things a Priest should learn in Seminary-the Tridentine Mass, and Rosary...just in case they're ever called on to do one.

BTW, my Priest in San Antonio used to offer the Tridentine Mass at our 6PM Sunday Mass, but Archbishop Flores pulled the indult, so now he does the Novus Ordo in Latin.

116 posted on 05/20/2002 9:43:10 PM PDT by sockmonkey
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To: daffyduct,ppaul
I certainly agree. While people who struggle with homosexual temptation certainly do belong in the Church, where they can be helped, I think they should not be in the seminaries, as it is not best for them, nor for the people they hope to serve.

Perhaps after they are able to distance themselves considerably from their vulnerable years, in time they can enter, if given the proper support to maintain a chaste life. I'm not even sure that's such a good idea, to be honest, though.

117 posted on 05/20/2002 9:43:29 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Polycarp
Hahahahaha!!!!!
118 posted on 05/20/2002 9:43:42 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; jmj333
The scandal should renew questions about celibacy requirements for priests and the ban on female clergy, she said.

She's a typical American Catholic Idiot.

Instead, this scandal should renew discussion of the common denominator of modern society's central illness...rejection of Natural Law regarding the purposes, procreative and unitive, of sex.

In fact, it already is doing just that, which is why I have so much hope and joy right now.

119 posted on 05/20/2002 9:45:52 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
We can probably take it that "ultra-rigid" means:

#1: A favorable disposition toward the present Pope
#2: Acceptance of Humanae Vitae and all sexual teachings including opposition to homosexual conduct
#3: Wearing clerical black
#4: Displaying an interest in reading Thomas Aquinas and other orthodox Catholic writers.
#5: Praying regularly
#6: Saying Mass correctly with proper liturgical vessels and vestments
#7: Lack of enthusiasm for current trends of deconstructive iconoclasm in sacred art and architecture

120 posted on 05/20/2002 9:48:09 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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