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Revelation Ch. 9 and Romans Ch. 8
The Holy Bible (KJV) ^

Posted on 10/01/2023 9:40:26 PM PDT by Faith Presses On

"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

Revelation 9

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

TOPICS: General Discusssion

1 posted on 10/01/2023 9:40:26 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

2 posted on 10/01/2023 9:41:53 PM PDT by Faith Presses On (Willing to die for Christ, if it's His will--politics should prepare people for the Gospel)
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To: Faith Presses On

Amen 🙏🏻!!!!

3 posted on 10/01/2023 10:13:53 PM PDT by No name given (Anonymous is who you’ll know me as)
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To: Faith Presses On

Revelation 9 describes the anti-christ’s appearance on the earth along with the fallen angels. He will only have 5 months to deceive men I believe because of these scriptures.

4 posted on 10/01/2023 10:18:45 PM PDT by gawatchman
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To: gawatchman

Daniel 9 describes the rise and reign — temporarily — of Antichrist.

Revelation 9 describes vexatious creatures that John describes as some sort of venomous locust being loosed upon mankind as The Judgement announced by The Fifth Trumpet, and describes their period of terror upon the Earth.

It is notable that John The Revelator, when he introduces a thing that is symbolic, also says what it is symbolic of; e.g. in Revelation 5:6 describing the Lamb saying “He had seven horns and seven eyes,” he further explains that these seven eyes “are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.”

This is important to keep in mind, because John introduces many things about which he does NOT give us any symbolic explanation, i.e. we are to understand that they are NOT symbolic, but are being related to us just as John saw them.

This matter of construing as symbolic ONLY what John expressly describes as symbolizing a certain thing is important to a grasp of the overall revelation. Some have chosen to construe as symbolic things that John does not say are symbolic, and have thus fallen into egregious error. In fact, some construe the entirety of Revelation as symbolic, thus relegating John’s entire work to a state of hopeless inscrutability, and thus they excuse themselves from any necessity of understanding it.

This is great folly, for why else would our LORD and Christ take pains to present such a vast tract of prophetic material to The Church if it were utterly beyond our ability to understand? No, the Revelation given to John is not for our confusion, but for our understanding, and encouragement. Indeed, John himself declares in Revelation 1:3 “Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy aloud, and blessed are those who hear and obey the things written in it, because the time is near!”

Therefore read, and trust the Holy Spirit of God to give understanding.

5 posted on 10/02/2023 2:45:17 AM PDT by HKMk23 (
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To: Faith Presses On


6 posted on 10/02/2023 3:12:51 AM PDT by sauropod (I will stand for truth even if I stand alone.)
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To: HKMk23

My typo: “Daniel 9” should read “Daniel 7.”
The link to the text is correct, however.

7 posted on 10/02/2023 4:08:54 AM PDT by HKMk23 (
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To: Faith Presses On


Thanks, Faith.

8 posted on 10/02/2023 6:59:26 AM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: HKMk23

The book of Daniel ends with the establishment of the mountain that covers the world — that is Christianity.

Dan 7: 1-6 describes:
first one: Lion: the neo-Babylonian empire (the golden head of the statue)

second: like a Bear but with 3 ribs in the mouth: the Achaemenid empire with Persia-Media-Babylonia as the three ribs (the silver torso)

third: a leopard: the Macedonian empire which was as swift as a leopard (the bronze thighs)

fourth: an amalgamated beast with multiple heads - the Roman empire (iron, then iron-clay)

The small horn was Nero who killed Claudius, his mother and his co-heir.

Nero from 64 AD to 67 AD waged war against the followers of the way of Jesus (the Christians) - burning them alive. He was joined in this by the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees. This nearly snuffed out the Jesus-movement.

Revelation 9 describes the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

9:3-5 is a reference to Exodus 10:14 and 10:15.

This ties to the persecution of Jews by Gessius Florus. Florus, the procurator of Judea, killed thousands of Jews for five months, beginning in May AD 66.

Read Josephus, the Wars of the Jews, book 4, chapter 9

9 posted on 10/02/2023 8:45:58 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Cronos

I appreciate the run-down on that particular eschatological take. There are MANY reasons that I don’t subscribe, although I do think it likely that in the annals of history, the progression of events you laid out could constitute a dual interpretation — a now and later — reading of Daniel and Revelation.

It wouldn’t be the first, or the only time.

So, our eschatological variance may not necessarily be either/or, but possibly both/and.

As just a single example, you equate the 4th Beast with the Roman Empire, and it may well be a prophetic type — a fulfillment in part, wit ha fulfillment in fullness yet to come. Daniel is emphatic in the 4th Kingdom being entirely UNLIKE any ever before. Rome was somewhat different — certainly more expansive, but not that different in essence, as human kingdoms go. So, I think Daniel points to a difference so galling, and total that the fulfillment of the 4th Beast prophecy will stand out in utter uniqueness against the ranks of all other prior human kingdoms.

Hope that helps you grasp my take on things. In essence, I’m not rejecting your view, but incorporating it as a foreshadowing of the ultimate fulfillment of these prophesies.

10 posted on 10/02/2023 11:21:19 AM PDT by HKMk23 (
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To: Cincinnatus.45-70

You’re welcome, Cincinnatus.

11 posted on 10/05/2023 3:41:27 AM PDT by Faith Presses On (Willing to die for Christ, if it's His will--politics should prepare people for the Gospel)
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