Posted on 04/05/2021 5:45:46 PM PDT by ebb tide
“To determine the morality of using the cells, it is helpful to compare it to another situation: the use of organs from a person who has been murdered. If a doctor were to offer to transplant a kidney or heart from the murder victim into a Christian, we would likely not have any objection. The primary concern would be whether the victim consented to organ donation prior to their death.
Most Christian ethicists agree that fetal tissue donation is not inherently unethical if the tissue was obtained from a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or an ectopic pregnancy (a pregnancy in which the fetus implants in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus) and was willingly donated by the parent. Such donations would be similar to a parent agreeing to donate the organs of an infant or a child that had died by natural causes.
The donation of fetal tissue may be morally tainted, though, when the tissue is derived from a fetus that has been killed in the womb. Allowing and condoning such donations of tissue derived from abortion to continue would make us indirectly morally complicit in the act of abortion, conveying a sense of approval for an ongoing regime that sanctions the killing of the unborn.
That raises the question of whether the use of cells from HEK293T would promote abortion in just such a way. While pro-life Christians may disagree on how to answer that question, it is unlikely that the use of the HEK293T cell line will lead to additional children being murdered in the womb in order to expand the number of fetal tissue cell lines. The reason is that it is completely unnecessary, and medically inexpedient, to create new cell lines from aborted children. As Rev. Nicanor Pier Giorgio Austriaco, a Catholic biomedical researcher, explains:
. . . HEK293 is an established cell line. What this means is that these cells have been used and studied by biologists for nearly half a century. They are well characterized, and they have been validated for their safety. I point this out because it helps explain why it is unheard of for a vaccine manufacturer to seek out new human fetal cells from a recent abortion. Such novel fetal cells would be uncharacterized, unvalidated, and unapproved by regulatory agencies like the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for human vaccine production. Why waste time, effort, and money to obtain, characterize, and validate new human fetal cells when the classic fetal cell lines obtained decades ago like HEK293 are readily and cheaply available?
Currently, the use of the HEK293T cells in biomedical research is not increasing the number of abortions that are being carried out every year. If we were to see evidence of that happening, however, it would change the moral calculation.
The remaining question is whether accepting the use of HEK293T cells would potentially be cooperating with the killing of the child in the 1970s. For a number of reasons, many if not most Christian bioethicists would argue that it is not (assuming an abortion even occured). The primary reason being that this situation is morally analogical to the case of the murder victim/organ donor. No one would say the Christian who received the organ was morally responsible in any way for the murder.”
Ah!! So you're a Biden supporter. That explains everything.
“Any vaccine developed with the help of the murder of babies.
And that includes every Covid “vaccine” that is currently on the market.” - ebb tide
Actually, no one knows if the stem cell line used came from an elective abortion or a spontaneous one.
“HEK293T is a widely used immortalized cell line that was made from fetal tissue acquired in the Netherlands in the 1970s. The records pertaining to the origins of HEK293T were lost, so it is not know whether the tissue came from a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion.”
The murder of babies is not a joking matter.
It was an elective abortion. The mad mengele scientist was in attendance at the abortion.
They need to harvest those organs ASAP. Sometimes while the baby is alive.
As the SBC folks point out, no one KNOWS because the records of that abortion are long gone. When Catholic Bishops and the SBC both agree on morals, MAYBE there is some moral basis for it.
The transformation was executed by Frank Graham, another scientist Van der Eb's lab who invented the calcium phosphate method for transfecting cells. The source of the cells was a healthy aborted fetus of unknown parenthood. The name HEK293 is thusly named because it was Frank Graham's 293rd experiment.
"Healty fetus" indicates it was en elective murder, aka abortion.
The healthy baby, not fetus, was aborted in Holland in the early 1970’s. Holland (the Netherlands) did not legalize abortion until 1981.
That’s why the baby’s parentage is unknown, it was an illegal abortion/murder.
So, I guess you’re not taking any vaccine. And I suppose you don’t care if your family members get sick and die, either.
That’s fine with me.
But everyone’s life is his or her own; and people don’t need you deciding things for them, or scaring them out of what could be very useful vaccines.
(Have you looked into the genetic background of every therapy that is used for every disease - or are you just fixated on one current derivation from fetal cells? I suspect that there’s a lot more for you to be concerned about.)
I know dozens of people who have taken one of the vaccines, with no ill effects. And the numbers of sick and hospitalized are going down all over the country - thanks to President Trump and his enormous effort to get these vaccines out to us.
I guess you would prefer that the sick and dead numbers kept rising; after all, you seem to specialize in ‘gloom and doom’.
So, you’re the one who weighs the scales of the value of one human life against another?
I would prefer to see abortion outlawed as it murder, like it used to be outlawed.
Then it would force Big Pharm to once again work with animal, plant, adult, placenta, and umbilical cord stem cells.
It may take more time and more money, but it will save millions of babies.
Do you have a problem with that? Or are you too concerned about your own little life?
All live matter.
But I guess your life matters more than the murdered babies, no matter how many it takes.
I don’t know how you can sleep at night.
I sleep pretty well - especially knowing that I post cogent responses here, instead of indulging in endless ad hominems.
G’Nite, dear!
About as cogent responses as the ones Joe Biden gives.
He’s definitely pro-murder and you appear to be so also.
I hope you sleep as soundly as Sleepy Joe does.
And none of that, let me repeat that for you, none of it makes it right.
Rationalization, where God’s laws are concerned, is just as evil as if you were to blatantly disobey.
God does not compromise on his laws, otherwise they become mere suggestions and are utterly worthless.
To answer your question, no, I will not be getting vaccinated, and I have already counseled my children NOT to get vaccinated, for the various reason, but primarily I do not trust those pushing the vaccination, because much like yourself, to them, morality is just something to be bought or rationalized away.
“That’s lie. It is common knowledge...”
No, apparently it is NOT common knowledge. Not KNOWN at all. And a healthy fetus might be aborted due to genuine health issues of the mother - for example, a brain dead mother.
We do not KNOW it was elective. And as both the Catholic church and the Southern Baptists point out, even an elective abortion doesn’t mean the continued use of the tissue cannot be used to do good in the world 50+ years after an evil event took place. Snatching some good out of bad is something God is good at.
oh, jesus!
You're funny in you wild defense of cooperation with infanticide. You just described an elective abortion to save the life of a brain dead mother.
Tell me Mr. Rogers, and tell your friendly neighborhood, what health risks does a healthy baby pose to his/her brain dead mother?
Now your taking the Lord’s name in vain.
I’m not surprised.
It’s a good thing Jesus Christ wasn’t aborted or would you rather make a joke about that also.
Abortion may be a morally straightforward, cut-and-dried issue to many of us.
But the matter of these vaccines is not that at all.
Fetal tissue hasn’t only been obtained from non-necessary elective abortion. It could have come from an abortion which was undergone because the mother’s life was in grave danger, or from miscarriage.
I don’t know how much regulation we had over these issues in the middle of the last century; but if a mother chose to donate tissue after a miscarriage or necessary abortion in hopes of doing some good, I don’t see how that would be any different from donating organs after any death. Again - medical research is not and has never been a ‘driver’ of abortion.
If it’s true that any aspect of these vaccines relied upon the use of fetal tissue collected long ago through an abortion, we have no way at all of knowing the circumstances surrounding that abortion; and to suggest that we do is misleading, if not a plainly dishonest way of trying to ‘demonize’ the vaccines and frighten and propagandize people of decent sensibilities away from them.
Some people might find this article interesting:
Let me know if, in the future, you or your children ever develop a serious disease for which ES cell research might offer help - such as retinal disease promising to lead to blindness. I somehow doubt you’d refuse transplant/treatment because you had some notion that it *may* have been derived from ES cells long in the past and under circumstances of which you can know nothing.
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