Posted on 01/29/2021 2:07:36 AM PST by Cronos
Nope - completely different - Jesus isn’t a pagan god no matter what you say. as to statues - Motherhood is common to all the cultures of the world, and is a powerful connection for people. It’s not hard to believe that this image would have made its way into the various world cultures
Cronos, Your material on the church being the kingdom of Christ is well done. However, when you say:
“we see that the kingdom of God is in the here and now, present in and through the Church. Yet it is a mixed reality that will only be perfectly realized at the end of history. This current “mixed” state can be seen as the Church on earth which now grows in the field of the world with both weeds and wheat until the harvest when Christ says he will “tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned. But gather the wheat into my barn” (Matt 13:30).”
...you’re equating the harvest with the end of history, something the Bible never mentions. Jesus’ disciples, including even modern Jews, recognized two ages, the Mosaic age, and the age to come, i.e., the age of the Messiah. Jesus even spoke of “this age” and “the age to come” (Mt. 12.31-32, Mk. 10.29-31, Lk. 20.34-35).
Though we many times think “the end” Paul spoke of refers to the end of the Christian age; in reality, the Christian age has no end. For example, in Isa. 9.6-7, Isaiah prophesied the endlessness of the Messiah’s rule:
“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.”
Likewise, in Lk. 1.31-33, Gabriel told Mary of the endlessness of the Messiah’s reign:
“And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
Thus, the term “end of the age” in Jesus’ teaching never referred to the end of the Christian age, which has no end. Instead, it foretold the end of the Mosaic age. So, in Mt. 13.30, when Jesus says the harvest is at the end of the age, he’s not speaking of the end of history, nor the end of time, neither of which are found in the Bible, but the end of the Jewish age, which you know occurred in AD 70.
When you’ve had time to consider this, let me know what you think.
Cronos, Your material on the church being the kingdom of Christ is well done. However, when you say:
“we see that the kingdom of God is in the here and now, present in and through the Church. Yet it is a mixed reality that will only be perfectly realized at the end of history. This current “mixed” state can be seen as the Church on earth which now grows in the field of the world with both weeds and wheat until the harvest when Christ says he will “tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned. But gather the wheat into my barn” (Matt 13:30).”
...you’re equating the harvest with the end of history, something the Bible never mentions. Jesus’ disciples, including even modern Jews, recognized two ages, the Mosaic age, and the age to come, i.e., the age of the Messiah. Jesus even spoke of “this age” and “the age to come” (Mt. 12.31-32, Mk. 10.29-31, Lk. 20.34-35).
Though we many times think “the end” Paul spoke of refers to the end of the Christian age; in reality, the Christian age has no end. For example, in Isa. 9.6-7, Isaiah prophesied the endlessness of the Messiah’s rule:
“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.”
Likewise, in Lk. 1.31-33, Gabriel told Mary of the endlessness of the Messiah’s reign:
“And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
Thus, the term “end of the age” in Jesus’ teaching never referred to the end of the Christian age, which has no end. Instead, it foretold the end of the Mosaic age. So, in Mt. 13.30, when Jesus says the harvest is at the end of the age, he’s not speaking of the end of history, nor the end of time, neither of which are found in the Bible, but the end of the Jewish age, which you know occurred in AD 70.
When you’ve had time to consider this, let me know what you think.
Peter and all the apostles and Jesus and Mary were part of 2nd temple Judaism.
At the time of Jesus, there were multiple sects — one of which was the Jesus-sect. This expanded and absorbed over half of the 2nd century Jews which is why it was a threat to the Pharisees.
The pharisees were the ones beating jesus-movement followers in the synagogues as recorded in the Bible.
After the destruction of the temple, the pharisees created a new religion based on pharisee sect that did not have the temple or priests or sacrifices.
The Jesus-movement Jews were given the exonym ‘Christians’ in Damascus in the 30s AD. They took it after the Kitos war when Pharisees and Zealots committed genocide in Cyrene and Cyprus.
Note that the term for “Christians” in the Sassanid empire (where there wasn’t the genocide committed) is “Nazarenes’
That’s the term the Arabs use for Christians.
Peter was and is a Jesus-movement Jew as are all Christians.
Yes, it is God’s church.
The new Jerusalem is the Church, the Jesus-movement Jews, the kingdom that was inaugurated at the Pentecost.
You and I are believers in Jesus and hence are Jesus-movement Jews in continuation with the line from the Apostles
Matt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
MHGintn The Kingdom of Heaven is IN HEAVEN!
The text doesn't say that
read Matthew's references to the Kingdom of heaven
Matthew 4:17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Matthew 10:7 As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
Matthew 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent are taking it by force.
do you see this -- "the Kingdom of heaven from the days of John the Baptist" and "the Kingdom is at hand"
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Furthermore, Matthew 16:19 Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” makes it crystal clear that the Kingdom of heaven is both in heaven and on earth thanks to Jesus
This is emphasized in Matthew 18:1 At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Note -- who IS, not who WILL be -- and they are all at that time on earth.
Birds of the air
In the parable of the sower, Jesus told us who the “birds of the air” are!
They are the evil ones who snatch the Word of God before it bears fruit.
Two things seen here
Unnatural growth...mustard is a shrub, got a mighty tree
Evil infesting unnatural growth stealing away the gospel
Rather well describes Mega churches and Mega church systems, where corruption, legalism and heresy steal away the true gospel.
OK, guys, I think I have ferreted out the hidden assumption behind this post:
UNLESS MONEY CHANGES HANDS,
‘REAL’ MINISTRY DOES NOT HAPPEN.
“Real” ministry = formal teaching, as done by a profe$$ional teacher. “
Granted, we do need to have a few serious scholars and writers in the mix somewhere, for discrete coaching, WHEN ASKED. For “mentoring.” The initiative, however, must rest with the lay leader who opens up his home, his table, his heart, to God and to God’s people.
(Ever notice how many amillennial folks are highly-trained and erudite profe$$ional ministers? If God isn’t doing anything, or moving anything, then mammon must talk instead. And people who have enough money and leisure to buy a lot of “education” must be the important people, the ones worth listening to!)
It’s obvious that a learned ministry plays a role in the life the the church — but what percentage of the Christian life consists of sitting and listening to lectures?
Preaching that the act of listening to lectures is the main event, and the whole point, of being a CHristian may well be a toxic false teaching in and of itself. This false emphasis takes the CHristian out of the action, and surrenders most of life to Satan — with the blessing of the pulpit.
This false teaching only makes sense if you’re a preacher, and have a need to be listened to. But what about those with other callings?
These are the same systems that Jesus called out as liars, legalists, brood of vipers, piling burdens upon men’s backs, white washed tombs with bones of dead men inside, travelling many miles for one convert only to make the covert twice the sons of hell that they were,
The Kingdom of God is within you.
This is the Holy Spirit Who is in (gk; “en”), inside you.
I don’t have a church inside me
I do have God’s Spirit inside me and upon me to do His glory
“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will proclaim things hidden since the foundation of the world.”
The Parable of the Sower
3 And He told them many things in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and they sprang up immediately, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But after the sun rose, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 But others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times as much. 9 The one who has ears, let him hear.”
the Lord Himself interpreted this parable for us in Matt. 13:18-23.
Weeds among Wheat
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left. 26 And when the wheat sprouted and produced grain, then the weeds also became evident. 27 And the slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No; while you are gathering up the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
The Lord also interpreted this parable for us in Matthew 13:37-43.
The Mustard Seed
31 He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a person took and sowed in his field; 32 and this is smaller than all the other seeds, but when it is fully grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the sky come and nest in its branches.”
The Leaven
33 He spoke another parable to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three sata of flour until it was all leavened.”
Hidden Treasure
44 “The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells everything that he has, and buys that field. A Costly Pearl
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46 and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold everything that he had and bought it.
This sounds like the church.
A Dragnet
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; 48 and when it was filled, they pulled it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
This sounds like the sheep and goat judgment, then the final judgment.
52 And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure new things and old.”
His Kingdom will contain believers from every segment of the Age of Man, from Genesis to Revelation.
“The Kingdom of God is within you.” so perfectly correct ... and God haz told us that! He even repeated it with extra in 1 John 3:9. As Paul said ‘He is in you, both to will and do of His good pleasure’; once Justified by faith alone in Christ alone, He abides in that born again spirit to sanctify the life thereafter, to the extent that we yield to His Lordhship.
No Jesus isn’t a pagan, your church is heresy, and pagan and cursed by the Father..
Amen
For ALL...
We are living in, or at least on the cusp of, a post Christian world. Now what? How do we proceed, survive and thrive?
Ordered and just received two books, which are relevant to our times and may provide wisdom. Shared here for your review and consideration...
https://www.amazon.com/Benedict-Option-Strategy-Christians-Post-Christian/dp/0735213291
https://www.amazon.com/Live-Not-Lies-Christian-Dissidents/dp/0593087399
Nope, a heresy is the 19th century invention of the pre tribulation rapture. The Church is the bride of Christ which is why it has lived and spread the faith to every continent. Your own beliefs in the pre tribulation rapture deny Jesus’s very words.
For ALL...
We are living in, or at least on the cusp of, a post Christian world. Now what? How do we proceed, survive and thrive?
Ordered and just received two books, which are relevant to our times and may provide wisdom. Shared here for your review and consideration...
https://www.amazon.com/Benedict-Option-Strategy-Christians-Post-Christian/dp/0735213291
https://www.amazon.com/Live-Not-Lies-Christian-Dissidents/dp/0593087399
But people can’t forget that Moses and Aaron’s staffs became serpents.
Moses and Aaron were symbols of the shepherd and high priest.
Those staffs becoming a serpent is a parable for what would happen to the church and the Kingdom.
Satan would be allowed to enter and even shepherd and minister the church.
Not unlike the garden with Adam and Eve.
We have had about 2,000 years since the establishment of the ‘church’.
The bible notes that there were ‘about 2,000’ demon possessed swine.
Swine is symbolic of unclean/abomination.
Demons, well,in this case,would be doctrines of demons.
So about 2,000 years of unclean doctrines of demons.
In the Kingdom. In the church.
The entire bible is full of parables for the Kingdom.
But not many want to experience the Saul portion of the Kingdom if they could choose.
Almost like Saul was a chosen vessel and has been representing the King Saul period of the Kingdom for the last 2,000 years.
There are hidden pearls throughout the scriptures.
And those that may not seem relevant to the Kingdom, may actually hold some of the most profound pieces to His plan/puzzle.
The Hebrew language, created by God is like that in many ways.
All languages are created by God. Sheesh. Hebrew evolved out of other languages. It’s not the exclusive language, nor is Arabic, Latin, Sanskrit, Avestani, Sumerian etc. etc.
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