Posted on 01/13/2020 7:11:07 PM PST by marshmallow
Churches appear to be less indispensable to small communities than they themselves are inclined to think. The Dutch Catholic weekly Katholiek Nieuwsblad reached that conclusion after long-term research into the effects of church closure on village communities.
The research of the Dutch Catholic weekly shows, among other things, that the pace at which churches are disappearing from the countryside will only increase in the coming years. It often results in painful closures or mergers, but the local village communities also seem to recover surprisingly quickly.
The various social functions of the parishes are often taken over by local social organizations without much ado, according to Katholiek Nieuwsblad. What has also became clear is that very few parishioners decide to attend Mass in another church after theirs has been closed.
Uncomfortable conclusion’
The newspaper’s editor-in-chief Anton de Wit speaks of “a rather uncomfortable conclusion” for the community of faithful: “The village in 2020 can do very well without a church.”
In the first year of the research editors of the magazine spoke with dozens of scientists, policymakers and experts in the matter.
(Excerpt) Read more at cruxnow.com ...
Mosques, OTOH...
. . the great falling away . .
Very sad. Prayers.
Not said: Does the availability of conservative Catholic churches, as opposed to liberal ones, matter in the equation?
I suspect that conservative Catholics would travel a long way to worship at a conservative church, but not at a liberal one. And liberals do not want to travel very far at all to attend even a liberal church with watered down faith.
I am only one Catholic woman and I do not speak for anyone but myself. As a devout traditional practicing Catholic I would prefer a conservative parish, however I would travel a very very long way indeed to worship and receive the body and blood of Jesus. He is still there, even at a liberal parish.
Happens at Protestant churches and towns too. It’s a cultural thing versus a life changing thing. It is sad.
I think that’s the problem with churches in general, taking God out and replacing it with religion of politics. My former pastor (female) was a good preacher until Trump got elected. Every sermon was like listening to MSNBC.Was about to quit, when she decided to retire. Now have a pastor from Uganda who actually preaches just the word of the Lord. Like breathing fresh air now!
Yes, for the NT is called the church of the living God, not a dead institutionalized one. Thus,
51% of Protestants from a different Protestant denomination cite a lack of spiritual fulfillment as a reason for leaving their childhood faith. 85% say they joined their current denominational faith because they enjoy the services and style of worship. Only 15% left say they left because they stopped believing in its teachings.
71% of converts from Catholicism to Protestant faith said that their spiritual needs were not being met in Catholicism, with 78% of Evangelical Protestants in particular concurring, versus 43% of those now unaffiliated. And with 46% saying the Catholic Church did not view the Bible literally enough. Pew forum, Faith in Flux (April 27, 2009);https://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/27/faith-in-flux3">https://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/27/faith-in-flux3
And part of the NT church is community, not as an end itself but that a result of spiritual union. And the lack of which community is a weakness the devil capitalizes on in fostering false religion which keeps this as a cultural value or purposely promotes it.
The Muslim mosque (they use a different name for it) not far from here meets in the middle of weekdays during Ramadan and is packed with about 200 people, and who hang around socializing for a long time after coming outside. (But they got gospel tracts on their cars more than once, and a leader threatened to call the police when the people were offered tracts, although they generally were not hostile.)
Actually while I believe the Catholic contrivance of the Lord's supper to be erroneous, in RC teaching although the character of the minister does not invalidate a sacrament (contra Donatism), yet as stated in the Roman Catholic teaching below the validity of the Eucharist, (and sacraments in general) requires the intention of the priest to do what the church does. But which proper intention may be doubtful in the case of liberal priests (only about half of Catholics polled affirm the Catholic "Real Presence)" though (according RC teaching) proper intention is to be presumed unless there is serious ground for doubting that.
Council of Trent: If anyone says that in ministers, when they effect and confer the sacraments, there is not required at least the intention of doing what the Church does,[6] let him be anathema.” (Session VII, Canon 11; http://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/trent7.htm).
DE DEFECTIBUS, Papal Bull decreed by Pope Saint Pius V in ratifying the Council of Trent I - Defects of the Missing 1. The priest who is to celebrate Mass should take every precaution to make sure that none of the things required for celebrating the Sacrament of the Eucharist is missing. A defect may occur with regard to the matter to be consecrated, with regard to the form to be observed and with regard to the consecrating minister. There is no Sacrament if any of these is missing: the proper matter, the form, including the intention, and the priestly ordination of the celebrant.
VII - Defect of intention 23. The intention of consecrating is required. Therefore there is no consecration in the following cases: when a priest does not intend to consecrate but only to make a pretense;.. (http://www.dailycatholic.org/defectib.htm)
The Catholic Encyclopedia>intention: The Church teaches very unequivocally that for the valid conferring of the sacraments, the minister must have the intention of doing at least what the Church does. ..The common doctrine now is that a real internal intention to act as a minister of Christ, or to do what Christ instituted the sacraments to effect, in other words, to truly baptize, absolve, etc., is required. (www.newadvent.org/cathen/08069b.htm)
Catholic Encyclopedia>Sacraments:“To be a minister of the sacraments under and with Christ, a man must act as a man, i.e. as a rational being; hence it is absolutely necessary that he have the intention of doing what the Church does. - www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm
PONTIFICIUM CONSILIUM: Sufficient intention in a minister who baptizes is to be presumed, unless there is serious ground for doubting that the minister intended to do what the Church does. (www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html)
Enter mosques
Alrighty then!
Then an awful lot of FR Catholics ought to apologize to the pope!
I knew the Catholic Church was done for when my friend, who had cancer and was unable to work, was told to find another church, because he wasn’t contributing his share to the donations plate.
The church of the Living God, namely the One Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church.
“Protestant denomination” is such a catch-all for so many widely ranging beliefs.
The Unitarians were considered a Protestant denomination until recently. And Oneness Pentecostals deny the Trinity.
So any statement that goes with “Protestants say” - whether it is for or against non-Catholics or just putting a statistic is non-sensical.
What about your particular denomination, daniel?
That would be relevant and specific.
Why do people leave your denomination?
Mosque attendance is also dropping.
Especially in the lowland countries, the numbers of Muslims leaving is large.
There is a general large exodus to atheism across various religions - whether the “flavours” of Christianity or Islam or Judaism or hinduism or Sikhiism etc.
That is basically what I have argued in response to Catholic vs. Prots as regards unity, but as a basic division as regards how many left I think the term can be used. The subset "evangelical" vs. mainstream is more so.
What about your particular denomination, daniel? That would be relevant and specific. Why do people leave your denomination?
Our small fellowship does not ID (or register at all) as a denomination and the only one that has left was to do mission work, but most of the hundreds of services I have been part of were Baptist, Independent and SBC, for which brethren I do not have any stats on. What is your point?
That's what I thought as well, until a freeper from the Oneness Pentecostals came up and said she was an evangelical and they didn't believe in the Trinity as she said it was unbiblical.
So one can't even use that -- the entire "evangelical" bogeyman in the MSM doesn't make sense
The point is that it would be interesting to read why people leave the Baptist, independent and SBC
I agree. And to where, but while we may be able to find out how many leave the details of why and where to are not likely to be asked of members of each denomination by pollsters.
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