Posted on 10/27/2019 10:56:46 AM PDT by blackpacific
“ It’s impossible to do that if you keep yourself stuck in a particular era and do not examine how the Holy Spirit has led the Church”
Yet your assumption is that this understanding is from the Spirit.
All of it?
Three simultaneous popes?
Inquisition?
Incorporation of paganism?
The Scripture stands alone as the highest authority because God used real words with real meanings.
Everything necessary for salvation and Christian maturity are found in Scripture.
It is by going to His Words we have the highest truth.., and is how we leave our preferences behind to find His.
When “the way the church understood it in history” is in conflict with the meaning of Scripture, the church is wrong - as it is about things in every era.
And when a church mixes worldly pagan practices into itself and then tries to justify them by Scripture, it is no longer a church, nor led by the Spirit.
As --- was it Catherine Aird? --- said, "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning."
Just like OT history, by the way.
The Second Council of Nicea was convened to counter the heresy of Iconoclasm.
Yes, but it didn’t seem to deal with the issue.
It was interesting that Charlemagne was kept in the loop of the happenings during the Council by the Pope himself.
Charlemagne vanquished the Huns and returned the wealth stolen by them to Christian Europe, using it to build monasteries, universities, hospitals, churches. With lots and lots of icons.
“ Charlemagne”
Yes, he would certainly rank higher in authority than Scripture
/s
Idols are idols.
idols are idols and icons are icons. learn the difference.
Charlemagne was one of the greatest kings in human history. He was a servant of the Church, and would never consider himself an authority on matters of Faith. But he cared about stamping out heresies, including the heresy of iconoclasm, which unfortunately is still alive today.
If images are all bad, why did Jesus leave us His shroud, Veronica’s veil, and the Sudarium? These images were made by God. Deal with it.
“ If images are all bad, why did Jesus leave us His shroud, Veronica’s veil, and the Sudarium? These images were made by God. ”
.....
Proof?? None.
Just an opinion.
And they are idolized.
If your mind was open to the truth you would know that the Shroud could not have been made by human hands. There is extensive scientific evidence that no human artist could have made it. The image is housed in the micro-fibril tips above the surface of the cloth. There is no pigment. It is a photographic negative, 1800 years before silver bromide based photography was invented. It has pollen on it that shows it came from Palestine, and it shows where it has been in its travels to Turin, Italy. As late as 2017 scientists have discovered that the blood found on it was that of a torture victim. There is evidence that the Shroud was used as the table cloth at the Last Supper.
Here is a center dedicated to the study of the Shroud:
https://www.shroudofturin.com/index.html
I am not arguing it was made by human hands or not.
I'm arguing it may be supernatural, but it may not be.
But it can not be proven either way.
It should not be idolized.
It is reverenced because it touched the sacred body of Jesus Christ, Who sweat blood for us, Who endured scourges for us, Who was buffeted for us, Who was whipped and driven for us, Who was nailed to the Cross for us.
Who thinks that any Christian “idolizes” the Shroud? It’s absurd to think this.
When I visited Bunker Hill where so many Americans died defending the fledgling United States from British tyranny, I was appalled that Bostonians were taking their dogs up there to crap on the lawn. It is sacred ground and should be reverenced for the sacrifices that those men made for us. But no one would say that such reverence is “idol” worship, would you?
The reverence for the Shroud is more intimate because it is an artifact of our salvation.
I guess any miracle that God does for our benefit He will have to PROVE to you before you believe it happened. The Apostle Thomas has already tred this path so we don’t have to.
“Blessed are they who have not seen yet believed.”
But of course, there is no evidence HE did it... you simply assume it to be so.
Let us go over this again, it will be on the test:
Miraculous evidence:
1. The image is housed in the tips of the microfibrils of the cloth.
2. There is no pigment.
3. It is a photographic negative 1800 years before humans had any knowledge of photography.
Provenance:
4. The pollen trapped in the cloth show where it has been during the centuries, originating in Palestine. These particles are microscopic, i.e. cannot be seen by the naked eye.
This is evidence. But it is not good enough for you because God has to come down and tell you personally that He made it.
It is simply evidence that implies an early date and location.
Great.
It doesn’t prove God had anything to do with it as a miracle.
By the way, I hope you had a great thanksgiving with your family today!
Items 1-3 are not possible for humans to accomplish. Not in 33AD.
We got snow in Palmdale, 6”!!
Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
Wow! That’s a good snow.
Fortunately, windy but not too cold in our area. Great fellowship and food.
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