Posted on 05/14/2019 12:13:01 PM PDT by fwdude
Jesus comes to the first heaven to snatch His Bride away from the Planet. He touches down on planet Earth at the end of the seven years of Tribulation and we the Bride come with Him from the third Heaven.
Nope, the Rapture happens when Jesus comes ONLY to the first Heaven to get His Bride. The second coming will be as the first, a touch down on planet Earth.
Agreed!
I hope my belief is wrong for the gentiles of the tribulation you are well versed, what say you about the great delusion of second thessalonians; it seems to preclude that, any contrary scripture i would love to read. Thank you.
That will also happen with the 3rd temple with the anti christ rising to power. That gold covered goat humpers whore house will be coming down soon si the 3 temple will be built. Even Muslim ecclesiastical teaching confirms the coming events, except they await their true master the anti christ.
Honest question do you think the church supplanted Israe as GODs chosen people, if so we won’t reach an agreement on end times and Im sorry for that, but it’s not necessary for salvation only a personal relationship with Him.
Where is that in Scripture?
Do you really believe that:
Luke 9:27 27”Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 16:28 28”Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mark 9:1 1And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”
Means anything other those standing there with Him as he spoke?
Matthew 24:34 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32 32”Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 30Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Matthew 23:36 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
Means anything other than the CURRENT generation at THAT time?
Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what *** must soon **** take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Does SOON mean around 2,000 years later?
Now even a child would reason that when their mom or dad said “Those standing here” (the child and whomever else) “Will this take place” (Would KNOW it meant them and not someone else 2,000 years later)
How is it possible that a man cannot understand what a child so easily grasps? The answer is simple; AS Paul attests:
2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
Who did Jesus say to become like?
Matthew 18:1-9 “1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
What more does Jesus need to say for one to let go completely all heresy, tradition and strongly held conviction and THEN to read the Words of God as a child; accept them as spoken, and then search for the treasures behind them.
“However, there WILL be deliverance for the converted Jews”
So if God can deliver those converted Jews (presumably you mean God is sparing them from the wrath even though they are alive during the tribulation), then God could certainly do the same for any other Christians during that time as well. So the whole argument that this rapture must occur before the tribulation so that the church can avoid wrath kind of collapses.
Disappointed why?
John 18:36 36Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
Many, many Christians are just a blind as the Jews of Jesus’s time. They rejected him for not being “WHO” they EXPECTED him to be. They were expecting a ruler that would destroy the Romans, so that THEY could rule as kings forever.
They were looking in the wrong place then, just as Christians are expecting a Kingdom in the wrong place now.
Yet this next verse always makes me laugh too.
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”
I don’t know any Christian that doesn’t proudly proclaim to have Jesus in “their heart” and also state that they Walk with Jesus. Yet they deny that he has returned. How then can they have JESUS.
Another one. Ask a Christian where they go when they die? They will quickly respond: To Heaven!!!
How, pray tell is this possible. If Christ has not returned and ARMAGEDDON fulfilled then they MUST be in the grave. Lost alone just like the prophets of old.
So many Christians build their faith like a home owner decorating their house. They pick and choose, reject what they don’t like; Buy what they do.
If Christ has not returned. He was a fool just like CJ Lewis said. People rot in the grave in the vain hope that he is going to return....one day.......
But let’s look at the possibility he has returned. I know he has. Look around you. Look inside. Are you afraid, if so why? If not, why also? What is death than a turning of a page.
Life is good
One thing to keep in mind is that the word “generation” you keep referring to is not the English word “generation”. In english, we mainly use that word in the modern day in one sense, but the Greek and Hebrew versions of the word have multiple connotations that the English word doesn’t convey, and the Bible certainly uses those other meanings in some passages (for example, every time a geneology is given, it is prefaced with “these are the generations of ...”, a usage that is not natural to a modern English speaker). In other passages, it refers to an age or epoch of time, and in other passages, a nation.
Here’s a link to a reference on this particular Greek word and all the meanings and ways it has been translated in the KJV, you can see that the context is very important when considering how that word is being used:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1074&t=KJV
I used to believe the pre-tribulation rapture theory. I devoured the LaHaye/Jenkins “Left Behind” fiction books back when they came out. It’s just that I started to see it differently in Scripture in later years. Of course, I hope I’m wrong—certainly! Jesus will do it how He has determined.
Thank you for your kind words, and may the Lord bless you, too.
Would the Holy One of God set foot on a fully unclean place such as Earth has become? The Bible identifies the atmosphere above the Earth as the first Heaven. The scientists are discovering that that atmosphere stretches out to beyond the Moon, ims. In 1Thess 4 we meet the Lord IN THA AIR not upon the Earth.
We meet Him in the air to welcome him back to Earth. There is no Third coming. When Yeshua was taken back to Heaven after the Crucifixion and the disciples were looking up at him leaving, didn’t an angel say that He would return the same way? No hidden secret coming back, that all the Earth would see Him return?
And, further, you must ignore the fact that Jesus spent 40 days teaching the disciples of the kingdom after His resurrection but before His ascension.
Are you really going to tell me that after 40 days of instruction they STILL misunderstood the very nature of the kingdom when they asked "Lord, are You restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?"
Jesus didn't say "Oh no my children, the kingdom is in your heart now ... there is no such thing as Daniels kingdom, you won't literally rule over the tribes of Israel, I won't be sitting on a literal Davids throne, you have it all wrong ..."
That's not what Jesus said ... He said "Not for you to know when ..."
And THAT my friend is why your position is utterly unbiblical ... you think THIS is the kingdom ... with murder, death, disease, destruction, and all matter of false religion and perversion rampant ...
Yes, if this is the kingdom I AM disappointed.
Please do not insult my intelligence
I said TEMPLE not KINGDOM
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Yes, they misunderstood what/where the Kingdom would be.
Kurt Simmon explains it perfectly here
Those who look for a future kingdom typically believe that it will involve modern state of Israel and the restoration of the Davidic throne, which will be extended over all the earth. They believe that the kingdom entails Jesus reigning over earth from earth, seated upon an earthly throne. This notion grows out of the fact that David reigned over an earthly kingdom whose capital city was Jerusalem. Since Christ was to be the restorer of the Davidic throne, they suppose that Christ must also reign from earth, seated in Jerusalem. But this mistakes the case entirely.
When our first ancestor sinned, God promised a “Seed” - a kinsman redeemer - to save the race. God told the serpent:
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” Gen. 3:17
This prophecy, known as the “protevanelium,” occupies two levels: On a spiritual level, it looked to the defeat of sin and death. The serpent - a personification of the power of sin and death - would bruise Christ’s heel in his crucifixion. But Christ would crush the head of sin and death in his atoning sacrifice and resurrection. On an earthly level, the prophecy describes the enmity between the woman (God’s people) and the serpent (the church’s enemies). Christ would bring victory to his people, delivering them out of the power of their enemies. Zechariah, father of John the Baptist, touched upon this latter aspect of Christ’s appearance in his “song”:
“Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us…that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear.” Lk. 1:68-75
It is in Christ’s deliverance of his people from their enemies that the “kingdom” exists and is realized. However, it is important that we keep both ends of the protevangelium in view. Those who look for a future earthly King and kingdom typically lose sight of the fact Jesus was sent into the world to die for the world’s sin. Classic Dispensationalism teaches that Jesus came to establish an earthly kingdom, but when the Jews rejected him, nailing him to a cross, the church-age was introduced as a “stop gap” measure until the Jews are ready to accept Christ and convert en masse, at which time Jesus will establish his earthly kingdom introducing a millennial paradise of peace on earth. Dispensationalism’s idea of Christ as king upon earth should be compared with the prophet Daniel’s depiction of Christ’s coronation:
“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” Dan. 7: 13, 14
Kingdom Received at Christ’s Ascension
Notice that Daniel’s prophecy places Christ’s coronation at his ascension, not his incarnation or second coming. Jesus’ death upon a Roman cross was foreknown and foreordained by God; the cross and church of Christ were not “stop gap” measures, but the eternal purpose of God to save his people (Isa. 53; Acts 2:23; cf. Isa. 53; Lk. 24:46, 47; Eph. 3:10, 11). The seat of Jesus’ kingdom was never intended to be upon earth, but had always been set in heaven at the right hand of God. Thus, the reign of Jesus from the heaven is depicted all through scripture. This is particularly true of the “resurrection” Psalms. Psalm two describes the murder of Christ and the victory of Jesus in his resurrection and ascension. God “begat” Jesus as a Son in his resurrection; he set him as king upon his “holy hill of Zion” (heavenly Jerusalem), and gave him the kingdoms of the world for his inheritance, which he rules with a rod of iron:
“Ask of me and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” Ps. 2:8, 9; cf. Rom. 1:4
Psalm 110 similarly describes Christ’s rule from God’s right hand in heaven:
“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.” Ps. 110:1, 2
Psalm 2 and 110 thus describe the reign of Christ; both extend it over the heathen and Christ’s enemies; both set it at God’s right hand in heaven in precisely the same terms as Daniel’s coronation vision. The New Testament epistles and Acts affirm that Psalm 2 and 110 were fulfilled in Christ’s ascension (Acts 2:34, 35; 13:33; Heb. 1:13; 12:2; I Pet. 3:22). Moreover, John portrays the heavenly coronation of Christ as an accomplished fact, drawing on the imagery and language of Daniel and the Psalms (Rev. 5; 12:5), and Jesus himself indicates present fulfillment of Psalm 2 (Rev. 2:26, 27). Hence, prophecies like Isa. 9:6, 7, which speak of Christ ruling upon David’s throne, looked for fulfillment in his resurrection and ascension, not upon earth.
Learn War No More
Some will object that many, if not most, nations are in denial and rebellion of Christ’s authority and Sonship: How does this square with imagery of the Messianic kingdom where the nations “beat their swords into plowshares” and learn war no more?
Consider this prophecy of Isaiah:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. “Isa. 2:2-4
This imagery is commonly relied upon by Millennialists as foretelling a time of universal peace on earth under the Messiah. However, this mistakes the passage.
First, it must be pointed out that scripture nowhere foretells a time when all nations willingly submit to Christ. Just the opposite: When Psalm 110 says “rule thou in the midst of thine enemies,” it presupposes resistance to Christ’s reign. Likewise, when Psalm 2 says the Son will break the nations with a rod of iron and thus urges earth’s kings and judges to “kiss the Son, lest he be angry and ye perish from the way” (v. 12), it indicates that Christ governs all nations, whether they acknowledge him or not (cf. Zech. 14:16-19). Indeed, Isaiah himself says as much when he states that Christ will “judge among the nations and shall rebuke many peoples” (Isa. 2:4). Thus, the notion of a time when universal peace will obtain on earth is mere fantasy.
Second, when Isaiah says the nations will “learn war no more,” he speaks only of those who walk in his paths; viz., those who obey the gospel. “Learning war” is the opposite of “rest from war.” As the Jews obeyed God, he gave them rest from their enemies. But when they disobeyed, war was the result (Jud. 3:8, 11, 30; II Sam. 7:1, 11). “Learning war” therefore is to experience God’s chastisement and correction; “rest from war” his reward and favor (cf. Jud. 3:1, 2). Hence, Isaiah’s imagery of the nations “beating their swords into plowshares” applies only to those who “ascend” the mountain of the Lord (receive the gospel), not the nations that remain in rebellion.
It is helpful to our understanding the kingdom to think in terms of the Roman Empire. Many nations came under Roman dominion, some willing made alliance and were free; others were conquered and subjected to tribute. Some nations continued in subjection to Rome; others tried to break free and rebel. So with the kingdom of Christ: some nations freely obey the gospel and own Christ as Lord, others are obstinate and rebel. Those that obey enjoy Christ’s favor; those that do not experience his wrath.
The Coming of Christ in Wrath
Almost all prophecies that describe Christ’s receipt of the kingdom also describe his wrath. Just as Dispensationalists mistake the nature of Christ’s kingdom, they mistake the nature of his second coming, in both cases looking for a future bodily and visible manifestation. Preterists believe that the second coming was spiritual (intangible/invisible) and providential; they believe that Jesus’ coming in his kingdom in power described God’s divine wrath upon the Jews and Romans for the murder of Christ and persecution of his church. Virtually all of the time texts of the New Testament place Jesus’ return within the life-time of the first disciples.
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” Mat. 16: 27, 28
We encourage the reader to consult the following passages, which represent but a few of the many that might be cited, demonstrating the first century return of Christ: Matt. 10:23; 23:36; 24:34; 26:64; Jn. 21:22; Heb. 10:37; Jm. 5:8; Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:7, 10, 12, 20. The reign of Christ manifested in the overthrow of Jerusalem and the Roman civil wars of AD 68-70 did not expend Christ’s wrath; they were merely its beginning. The wars and calamities that beset men and nations down through history until even today represent the providential judgment of Christ as he rules the nations above the circle of the earth. Earth’s peoples, kings and potentates should therefore heed the warning of the Psalmist, and bow before heaven’s king:
“Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.” Ps. 2:10-12.
Conclusion
The kingdom is the dominion of Christ over earth, which he obtained at his ascension.
http://preteristcentral.com/How%20Do%20Preterists%20View%20the%20Kingdom%20of%20Chirst.html
I think not ... Jesus taught them personally for 40 days after His resurrection. For them to misunderstand His meaning is not believable. And their question in Acts 1 verifies that they certainly understood what He was teaching concerning the nature of the kingdom.
As far as the lengthy cut and paste ... Replacement Theology at its best (or rather worst). I have many disagreements with the author which are too numerous to post.
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