The Birth of Jesus and the Day of Trumpets... Jesus Born on September 11th

The historical evidence I have presented in this book shows that Jesus was born in the year 3 B.C.E.

It appears most probable that a late summer birth in 3 B.C.E. has the best credentials. I need not rehearse my reasons for this, but they are very strong.

Indeed, the evidence from the priestly courses alone suggests that a September nativity is the most likely.

This gives a pretty close approximation that most scholars would probably accept as reasonable. But now, we come to the nitty-gritty! To propose an early evening birth on September 11, 3 B.C.E. appears almost impossible to believe.

The fact is, however, I can state without a shadow of a doubt, that the celestial scene described by the apostle John in Revelation 12:1–5, if viewed astronomically, would center precisely on a New Moon date within mid-September, and that in 3 B.C.E. that exact celestial phenomenon would have occurred in the early evening of September 11th.

I can also state with assurance that sundown on September 11, 3 B.C.E. was also the beginning of the Jewish New Year (Rosh ha-Shanah #8213; The Day of Trumpets).

Even if the apostle John were only giving the symbolic time for Jesus’ nativity, and not the actual, we are provided with a great deal of insight on how early Christians interpreted significant periods of time on the holy calendar of Israel.

If Jesus were actually born on Rosh ha-Shanah (the Day of Trumpets) in 3 B.C.E., a most impressive astronomical panorama of events burst forth on the scene that would have awed and astonished most Jewish people who lived at the time.

Look at the celestial events that occurred around that Rosh ha-Shanah date of September 11th in 3 B.C.E. Exactly one month before (on August 12) the world would have witnessed the close conjunction of Jupiter (reckoned astrologically as the Father) and Venus (the Mother) when they were only .07 degrees from one another when they appeared as morning stars on the eastern horizon.

This was a very close union. But then, nineteen days later (August 31), Venus came to within .36 degrees of Mercury in a very similar astronomical display.

Then, on September 11th, the New Moon occurred which represented the Jewish New Year. This happened when Jupiter (the King planet) was then approaching Regulus (the King star).

And, on September 14, Jupiter and Regulus came to their first of three conjunctions in this extraordinary year. Then, over an eight month period, Jupiter made its “crowning effect” over the King star Regulus. There could hardly have been a better astronomical testimony to the birth of the new messianic king from the Jewish point of view. Why? Because every one of these celestial occurrences I have mentioned happened with the Sun or planets being positioned within the constellation of Leo the Lion (the constellation of Judah — from whence the Messiah was destined to emerge) or in Virgo the Virgin.

The apostle John may have seen importance in these extraordinary occurrences when he symbolically showed that Jesus was born at the New Moon of Tishri, the Day of Trumpets (Revelation 12:1–3).

What we now need to do is to rehearse some of the typical and figurative features of the biblical accounts associated with this particular day.

They may well reveal why John and early Christians looked on Jesus as the Christ and the king of the universe.

If one can realize that the New Testament shows Jesus born on the Day of Trumpets (the first day of Tishri ― the start of the Jewish civil year) an impressive amount of symbolic features emerge on the biblical and prophetic scenes. Before the period of the Exodus in the time of Moses, this was the day that began the biblical year.

It also looks like this was the day when people were advanced one year of life ― no matter at what month of the year they were actually born.

Notice that the patriarch Noah became 600 years of age “in the first month [Tishri], the first day of the month [later to be called the Day of Trumpets]” (Genesis 8:13). That was the very day when “Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry” (v. 13). This was not only Noah’s official birthday, it became a new birth after the Flood for the earth as well.

Even the first day of creation mentioned in Genesis 1:1–5 could be reckoned as being this very day. The early Jews discussed whether the actual creation took place in spring or in autumn.

But since the autumn commenced all biblical years before the Exodus (Exodus 12:2), and since all the fruit was then on the trees ready for Adam and Eve to eat (Genesis 1:29; 2:9, 16–17), it suggests that the month of Tishri was the creation month, beginning near the autumn.

If so, then the first day of creation mentioned in Genesis was also the first of Tishri (at least, Moses no doubt intended to give that impression). This means that not only was this the birthday of the new earth in Noah’s day and what was later to become the Day of Trumpets on the Mosaic calendar, but it was also the day which ushered in the original creation of the heavens and the earth.

As shown before, among the Jews this day was called Rosh ha-Shanah (the Feast of the New Year). The majority belief of Jewish elders (which still dominates the services of the synagogues) was that the Day of Trumpets was the memorial day that commemorated the beginning of the world.

Authorized opinion prevailed that the first of Tishri was the first day of Genesis 1:1–5. It “came to be regarded as the birthday of the world.” 1 It was even more than an anniversary of the physical creation. The Jewish historian Theodor H. Gaster states,

“Judaism regards New Year’s Day not merely as an anniversary of creation ― but more importantly ― as a renewal of it. This is when the world is reborn.” 2

Gaster’s insight is so germane to the interpretation of the significance of biblical festivals that I will be referring to his research several times in my following references.

Each of the Jewish months was officially introduced by the blowing of trumpets (Numbers 10:10).

Since the festival year in which all the Mosaic festivals were found was seven months long, the last month (Tishri) was the last month for a festival trumpet.

The last trump in the seven months’ series was always sounded on this New Moon day. This made it the final trumpets’ day (Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 29:1).

This was the exact day that many of the ancient kings and rulers of Judah reckoned as their inauguration day of rule. This procedure was followed consistently in the time of Solomon, Jeremiah, and Ezra 3 The Day of Trumpets was also acknowledged as the time for counting the years of their kingly rule.

Indeed, it was customary that the final ceremony in the coronation of kings was the blowing of trumpets.

For Solomon, “Blow ye the trumpet, and say, ‘God save king Solomon’” (1 Kings 1:34).

For Jehu, “And [they] blew with trumpets, saying, ‘Jehu is king’” (2 Kings 9:13).

At the enthronement of Jehoash, “The people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets” (2 Kings 11:11).

There could well be a reflection of this symbolic feature in the New Testament. The Day of Trumpets was the time for the start of the seventh month (since the time of Moses), and the time for the “last trump” to introduce festival months.

Note that in the Book of Revelation, we have the record of a heavenly angel who will blow the seventh and last trumpet blast. And recall what happens at the exact time this “last trump” is sounded.

“And the seventh angel sounded [blew the last trump]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever [for the ages of the ages].’”

In New Testament parlance this shows the time of the coronation of Jesus, and it happens at the seventh (or last) trump in the Book of Revelation ― the Day of Trumpets.

The early Jews also recognized that the Day of Trumpets was a memorial day for considering those who had died. It was not a simple type of “Memorial Day” that we moderns are accustomed to.

Gaster said it was a symbolic time when “the dead return to rejoin their descendants at the beginning of the year.”

4 Such a day was a time when Israel would rally to the call of God for the inauguration of God’s kingdom on earth. Gaster also states this was the time that became “a symbol of the Last Trump.”

5 Since the apostle Paul was Jewish, it is possible that his reference to the “Last Trump” and the resurrection from the dead was also connected with the same biblical theme. The “Last Trump” of the early Jews was when the dead were remembered.

To Paul the “Last Trump” was the time for Jesus’ second advent and the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Truly, the Day of Trumpets theme is that of kingship. There may even be a reference to this in the elevation of the patriarch Joseph to kingship on this New Moon day which began the month of Tishri. Notice that he had been in a dungeon for “two full years” (Genesis 41:1).

It was not simply a two year period which Moses was intending, but the passage of two full years. The implication is that the story of Joseph’s rise to kingship happened on a New Year’s Day.

This is manifest in Psalm 81, a New Year’s psalm commemorating Joseph’s royal enthronement (Genesis 41:40). As with Jesus, in Revelation 11:15, the kingdoms of the world became Joseph’s on the day intended for coronations ― the day that later became the Day of Trumpets.

Of course, Pharaoh retained top leadership, but as the New Testament shows, God the Father still maintains supreme rule over Jesus even when Jesus is prophesied to rule the kingdoms of this world.

As we have shown from the Bible, the blowing of trumpets was the sign that kings could then begin to rule (1 Kings 1:34; 2 Kings 9:13; 11:11). Jewish authorities long acknowledged this royal import to the Day of Trumpets.

Gaster states, “The Sovereignty of God is a dominant theme of the occasion [and] it is one of the cardinal features of New Year’s Day.”

6 The main issue that prevailed in the significance of the day was the triumph of God as a king over all the forces of evil. The symbolic motif of the Day of Trumpets, as Gaster shows, was God “continually fighting His way to the Kingdom, continually asserting His dominion, and continually enthroning Himself as sovereign of creation. At New Year when the world was annually reborn that sovereignty was evinced anew.” 7

The theological thrust of the early Jews within their synagogue services for the Day of Trumpets was the fact that God rules over all and that he is the King of kings. On Trumpets it was common to quote Zechariah 14:16. “The king, the Lord of hosts.” Indeed, some scholars have suggested that psalms which begin “Yahweh is become king [or ‘The Lord reigns’]” (Psalm 93 and 97) were originally designed for recitation at the New Year festival.” 8 Recent study shows this to be true. It is postulated by many scholars that in Israel, Yahweh was crowned annually at the “New Year feast of Yahweh.” The scholar Mowinckel has argued that the “enthronement psalms” (Psalms 47, 93, 96–99) in which Yahweh reigns were a part of the liturgy of the ancient synagogues. 9 There is no doubt that this is true. This was also the very day when Jesus was born.

The central theme of the Day of Trumpets is clearly that of enthronement of the great King of kings. This was the general understanding of the day in early Judaism and it is certainly that of the New Testament. In Revelation 11:15, recall that the seventh angel sounds his “last trump” and the kingdoms of this world become those of Jesus.

This happens at a time when a woman is seen in heaven with twelve stars around her head and the Sun mid-bodied to her, with the Moon under her feet.

And note: Professor Thorley who reviewed the first edition of my work has shown that there are exactly twelve stars surrounding the head of Virgo as we see them from earth.

If one will look at Norton’s Star Atlas, twelve visible stars will be seen around Virgo’s head. They are (according to astronomical terminology): (1) Pi, (2) Nu, (3) Beta (near the ecliptic), (4) Sigma, (5) Chi, (6) Iota — these six stars form the southern hemisphere around the head of Virgo. Then there are (7) Theta, (8) Star 60, (9) Delta, (10) Star 93, (11) Beta (the 2nd magnitude star) and (12) Omicron — these last six form the northern hemisphere around the head of Virgo.

All these stars are visible and could have been witnessed by observers on earth.

Thus, the description of the apostle John describes a perfectly normal heavenly scene that could be recognized by all people.

Here was Virgo with twelve stars around her head, while the Sun was in uterine position and the Moon under her feet.

And again, the only time this could have occurred in 3 B.C.E. was on the Day of Trumpets. This is when the “king of kings” was born.

Another explanation of the Twelve Stars around the head of Virgo is that it represents the headship position (the “head” of Virgo is situated in the last ten degrees of Leo) for the beginning of the story found within the Twelve Constellations as reckoned in the biblical Zodiac. In the biblical Zodiac, the tribe of Judah (the Lion, or Leo) was situated around the Tabernacle directly east of its entrance.

This meant that half of the tribe of Judah was south and the other half north of the east/west line from the Holy of Holies through the court of Israel and then eastward through the camp of Israel (in this case, Judah) to encounter the altar outside the camp where the Red Heifer was burnt to ashes.

This means, unlike some Gentile reckonings which started their zodiacal story with the zero line between Cancer and Leo (that is, at the very commencement of Leo), the biblical Zodiac that Drs. Bullinger and Seiss were talking about began with the 15th degree of Leo (of Judah). This signifies that the first constellation to be met with in this celestial story would have been the “head” of Virgo the Virgin which occupied the last ten degrees of Leo.

The Day of Trumpets in the biblical and Jewish calendars is New Year’s Day for commercial and royal reckonings (just as we have January the first on our Roman calendar as the start of our New Year). This New Year’s Day signified a time of “new beginnings” to all those in Israel who accepted the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, the Jews over the centuries have held to the belief that the Day of Trumpets was a cardinal date in the history of Adam (our first parent). It was the very day when Adam and Eve came to the recognition of whether to obey God or to defy him (see The Complete Artscroll Machzor, p.xvi). But that was not all that occurred on that day. No day in the year could be reckoned as being of more esteemed value and symbolic influence than Rosh Ha-Shanah. That day is important for the birth of the Messiah in several ways that are very profound in Jewish symbolism.

The book The Complete Artscroll Machzor gives some chronological details that the early Jewish theologians and scholars worked out from indications in the Old Testament to show when important individuals were born or major events happened in association with their lives. And what an array of significant things occurred on the Day of Trumpets and the month of Tishri. The book gives a summary of accounts found in the Jewish Talmud (Rosh Ha-Shanah 10b–11a).

Note what the Machzor states about this particular Day of Trumpets. The quotes are interesting and of value,

“The Patriarchs Abraham and Jacob were born on Rosh Ha-Shanah. Abraham was a new beginning for mankind after its [mankind’s] failure to realize the promise of Adam and Noah. Jacob was a new beginning for the Jewish people, for it was with him that Jews advanced from the status of individuals to that of a united family on the threshold of nationhood”

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah God remembered three barren women, the Matriarchs Sarah and Rachel, and Hannah the mother of the prophet Samuel and decreed that they would give birth. Not only was Rosh Ha-Shanah a turning point in the lives of these great and worthy women, but the births of their children were momentous events for all Jewry, because they were the historic figures Isaac, Joseph, and Samuel.”

If the Jewish people would realize that the New Testament in the Book of Revelation (chapter 12:1–5) also places the birth of Jesus on the very same Day of Trumpets, they might begin to understand just how important Jesus is in a Jewish sense as well as to the world. The New Testament states that he is the Messiah. He shares many similarities with the births of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph and Samuel.

People should begin to realize the significant coincidences of the birthdays of these prominent men as understood by the Jewish people. And standing out above them all, is the teaching of the apostle John that Rosh Ha-Shanah is also the birthday of Jesus.

Jewish chronological evaluations show other important events associated with the Day of Trumpets (Rosh Ha-Shanah).

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah, Joseph was freed from an Egyptian prison after twelve years of incarceration. He became viceroy of Egypt, provider to the world during the years of famine, and the leader of Jacob’s family. God’s plan called for Joseph to set in motion the years of exile and enslavement that were the necessary preparation for Israel’s freedom, nationhood, and emergence in a blaze of miracles to accept the Torah and march to the Land of Israel.”

This shows Rosh ha-Shanah as a day of freedom. There is more on the theme of freedom. The Machzor continues:

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah, the Jewish people in Egypt stopped their slave labor [they began their time of liberty and freedom], while they waited for the Ten Plagues to play themselves out so that Moses could lead them to freedom”

As I stated, this day at the beginning of the month of Tishri was the day when the seventh trump (or the last trump) was sounded to introduce the final month when the festivals of God ordained at the time of Moses would be held.

This last trump is mentioned by the apostle Paul as heralding the events associated with the Second Advent of Christ back to this earth (1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). This last or final trump is also mentioned by the apostle John in Revelation 11:15 as the warning sound that the Kingdom of God will soon be coming to earth. And soon after, the seven angels of the Book of Revelation will bring on the seven last plagues (in the same fashion as the Jewish analyzers of chronology saw that from the same day of Rosh Ha-Shanah the Ten Plagues were sent forth on Egypt in the time of Moses).

What is certain is the fact that the Book of Revelation (with its teaching that Jesus was born on the Day of Trumpets) is giving us in a symbolic way the time for the nativity of Jesus whom Christians considered to be the king of the world. He was prophesied to lead all people into a time of freedom and profound peace.

This is the central reason why the apostle John in Revelation 12:1–5 shows that the birth of Jesus occurred within the first few minutes (the twilight period) of the Day of Trumpets that works out to be September 11th in 3 B.C.E.

1 M’Clintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, X.568. [Editor’s note: In the print version of this book, this endnote was listed as the last endnote of Chapter 5. It rightly belongs as the first endnote of Chapter 6.] DWS

Quote-(How can you prove that?)

Revelation 12:1 is a sign in the sky. It occurs in the early fall today but occurred in late summer 2000 year ago.

When the sun is ‘clothing the woman’ (virgo) and the moon ends up ender her feet, is not only a symbolic picture. If is an astronomical event.
And the time described in Revelation 12 and the birth of the manchild is nowhere near December 25 because the sun clothe the woman in early fall today. Not the winter.

He was born an an appointed day in the scriptures.
And was circumcised on an appointed day in the scriptures.

those are not December 25 or January 1st.

The study of His Word and the study of His Creation, proving and testing all things, can show those traditions of men to be false teachings.

When the sun is ‘clothing the woman’ (virgo)

The woman in Revelation Catholic chapter twelve is not about astrology; she is the mother of the Messiah, who is Miriam/Mary. In Joseph's dream, the sun was Jacob/Israel, the moon Rebekah, and the stars the eleven other sons of Jacob/Israel.

And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

...

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Genesis, Catholic chapter thirty seven, Protestant verses nine to eleven,
Revelation, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses one to five,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

The woman in Revelation with the sun clothing her is also an Astronomy sign-. Not astology. Astronomy.

Astronomy - the study (science) of the celestial objects.

The sun appears to travel through what the Bible calls the Mazzaroth through the year. And that can be seen with simple astronomy applications.
And what’s really interesting,is the picture it paints.

For example, where the sun is today when Israel assembles for Passover-
It is traveling through the Constellation that the world calls the two fish.

And the sun is traveling through the Constellation that world calls the Woman at the Fall Feast of Tabernacles.

Two fish- Passover
Woman- Tabernacles

If you study His Creation, there will come a time when the sun will travel through two different Constellations at Passover and Tabernacles.

Those two Constellations are:
The man carrying a jar of water - at Passover

The Lion- at Tabernacles.

fishers of men and the woman is as biblically significant as the man carrying a jar of water at Passover and the Lion.

And a couple thousand years ago, the Constellations that the sun was traveling through at Passover and Tabernacles, respectively, was the Ram and the scales/balance

Those all have biblical meanings and significance.

That’s the beauty of studying His Word and His Creation.
His people can know His plan is written above their heads.
Just like His Word says the sun, moon and stars are there for signs, appointment times, days and years..

He tell the world where we are at His Feasts.
Through His Creation.

Don’t confuse false astrology with astronomy. Those wise men were students of His celestial objects- we call that astronomy and astronomers today.

Add that study with His Word and one may find wisdom, understanding and knowledge. The wisemen knew when and where to look.

No different today.

“this puts the birthday of Yeshua (when the Word was made flesh) beginning on the eve of the 25th of September, the start of Sukkot (the feast of Tabernacles)”

I’m guessing you simply slipped when you said this, but the Word was made flesh at the conception of Christ, not at His birth.

December 25 could quite possibly have been when He was conceived in Mary’s womb.

Otherwise, I agree with your suggestion that His birth would match well with the feast of Tabernacles.

Yes, Jesus said if we could take it in, John was Elijah prophesied in the OT that would come before Messiah. Jesus spoke in what I call "Spiritual" language. In Mark 8, Jesus healed a blind man and asked what he saw. The man said he saw men, like trees, walking. Then Jesus touched him again and he saw naturally. Daniel saw 2 olive trees and it was explained that these were the 2 witnesses in Revelation. Olive trees denotes anointed men.

Jesus would rather the man have spiritual eyes than natural vision. Many times Jesus said,"For those with eyes to see and ears to hear". When he says that, pay attention, because what follows is a mystery He is revealing.

There are verses in Ezekiel 31 about a tall tree that an angel cuts down. Birds of the air and beasts of the field are demons in Scripture. They are living in this tree. The tree is a man made church. Usually churches are described as women, but this one is a tree. The birds and beasts are in and under the branches. "I'm the vine you are the branches" The angel leaves the stump but destroys the tree. The stump is Jesus. The church was based on Jesus but was corrupt.

This prophesy was supposed to be about Pharaoh in Egypt. Pharaoh is the Antichrist in the Last Days, and Egypt is almost always the world.

When Joseph was in Egypt, the Pharaoh was good and Joseph was a "type" of Christ. But then the Jews were put in slavery. The Pharaoh then was a Pharaoh that forgot Joseph. He was from Assyria. Almost everywhere "The Assyrian" is a type for the Antichrist. There again, that is a several hour study to find out the attributes of the Antichrist. Look up the Roman Empire and compare it to the Assyrian empire, and where they overlap will be the home country of the Antichrist. Syria, Iraq, or Iran, make up the bulk of that. Much of this info is in Daniel.

No, Luke has Jesus conception at the 6 month of Elisabeth’s pregnancy.(She hides her self 5 months “and in the 6th month Mary gets her “good news” and then goes and visits her cousin Elisabeth... all in Luke 1) There is nothing that points our to the exact time of year. Gestation periods are 36 to 40 weeks and they didn’t have exact tools like we do today to closely “guestimate” dates of conception...John would have to be born before Jesus and be preaching for some time before Jesus arrival as he was the prophesied Elijah(in spirit) who would be the herald of the coming Messiah. It might be the date you claim...if Jesus was born in mid September as it would be about 40 weeks from that time.(with John being born about late March Early April say near the day of Passover or near the day of “first fruits”?!)

The verses you make no sense about the topic of discussion.

You are asserting Jesus was born on Rosh HaShana (Head of the New Year/Feast of Trumpets, which is one holydays (followed ten days later by Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement)) that the Law of Moses commanded be observed, as it is until this day.
John wrote about the Feast of the Dedication in his Gospel. There is no ambiguity. We know what it was. Jesus, the Light of the World, was walking in the Temple that was the subject of that Feast of the Dedication/Lights. He sanctified that feast, those holydays, by His presence there and John told us as much. Protestants do not generally regard those holydays in their Bible (they do not accept Maccabees) while Catholics/Orthodox do. A Great Miracle Occurred There, and Jesus kept that feast. By His doing so, He made it scriptural.
Jesus was born on Tabernacles.

There is no scriptural evidence for that assertion. Were there such evidence of His birth occurring on a feast day, one would find it in the New Testament. Feasts/holydays are mentioned, principally those that the Law of Moses commanded that each Jewish male assemble, Passover/Unleavened Bread, Shavuot (Pentecost), and Tabernacles. All we have are traditions for the date on which the Messiah was born. There is great detail on how He was born, but the date was notably left out. Tradition ascribes it to winter, with the Western half of the Church using December 25 and the Eastern half January 6.

Don’t confuse false astrology with astronomy. Those wise men were students of His celestial objects- we call that astronomy and astronomers today.

Add that study with His Word and one may find wisdom, understanding and knowledge. The wisemen knew when and where to look.

Studying the stars for guidance ...

No different today.

Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

...

Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Isaiah, Catholic chapter forty seven, Protestant verse thirteen,
Jeremiah, Catholic chapter nine, Protestant verses twenty three to twenty four,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

I have three children. I know a little bit about 'gestation'. Luke gave the time frame ... 'season' in which John was conceived, when he told us in Luke 1:

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

This 'course of Abia' ran through what we now call, the month of June. It was after Zacharias finished the course of Abia, that John was conceived. Count from end of June, 6 months and that is when Christ was conceived. I have no cause found, to ignore 'seasons' used to mark the conception, birth and flesh death of our Lord and Savior. The Creator existed before any of His creation, and He is the One who created the 'seasons'

From the 'beginning', Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Man has a history of polluting everything he touches. It seems fitting that on the shortest day of 'day-light', the Light would become 'God with us'. Interesting, no matter how much man plays god with a calendar, man cannot change the seasons. God used the 'sun' to mark the seasons.

Luke the physician, also tells us, flesh life begins at conception.

Test and prove all things.

Sanctify them in Truth. Your Word is Truth.

December 25 birth is false according to His Word and His Creation.

January 1st circumcision is also then false according to His Word and His Creation.

February 2nd presentation is also then false according to His Word and His Creation.

Do you want to go test and prove the rest of the false days/teachings/doctrines with His Word and His Creation?

It doesn’t get any better for the false days/teachings/doctrines at His death, burial and resurrection either.

It sort of explains why Paul warns about another Jesus and another gospel.

I went by the fact that sheep get sheltered and taken out of the fields when it starts to get cold and I had had read about the “Abias” order thing some time ago so I had figured it was about September with conception the previous late November into December(taking into account the 360 day calendar and other factors.

The Bible offers no real handbook as to the meanings of the various star constellations but does explain the feasts and the timings of the new year and Passover related to the timings of the moon. We don’t have any biblically sourced info as to the various meanings behind conjunctions of planets and stars...what we do have come from extra biblical sources and I regard a lot of that as astrology unless the Bible specifically points to them and ascribes meanings to them. They are there to help us mark the times and the seasons so that we might have reasonable markers to live righteous well ordered lives, to plant, to harvest, to make feasts and to help us remember important events. They aren’t there for fortune telling or to tell us the future. Now heavenly “signs” are a different matter such as Christ’s prophecy of the “sign of the Coming of the Son of Man” which all nations would note. There will be signs and wonders in the heavens in the latter days but these will be way out of the ordinary; the deluded ones will try to explain them away but the righteous will know and get ready.

Given the probable timing of Jesus birth, the Holy Ghost may well have conceived him around December 25...certainly late Nov thru mid December if you are wedded to 9/11(per our current calendar). 36 thru 40 weeks is considered target zero for birth with 38-40 being the best ideal. The Bible says Mary was near full term when they went to Bethlehem so there ya go. We know Mary was already pregnant when she went to see Elisabeth in her 6th month as Elisabeth was suddenly filled with the Holy Ghost and acknowledged the Holy One in Mary’s womb.(Elisabeth’s conception of John would have been late May into June)

I was raised 'Christmas' was a pagan holiday... Then I read Luke, and realized what Luke actually penned. He pretty much gave us the date of conception, because of the course of Abia. Given that Christ is the LIGHT, of this world, it is no problem that the shortest day of the year, of sunlight, would be the day of conception... It does not change what happened because the pagans celebrate the date. Sometimes Christians allow the pagans to have the final say. Some calling themselves Christians wrap in pagan celebrations, so as to not offend the natives.

I cannot find any Scriptural reference to the moon having anything to do with the timing of the Passover.

Amos 5:8 “Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:”

Job 38:31 “Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?”

I disagree with your take "The Bible offers no real handbook as to the meanings of various star constellations..." We in the flesh tend to only think in terms we are familiar with in day to day activities. God controls all, and it was Christ Himself that warned about those coming in His name ... deceiving the majority... I consider myself less than a fly speck all things considered... but am acutely aware when some in His Name make claims from their own made up traditions.

The date, September 25, is good for this year only. Gregorian and Hebrew calendars differ due to Hebrew calendar being lunar based and Gregorian being solar based. It's why I suggested using the Hebrew month of Tishri for discussion, and strongest evidence, IMO, would indicate the birth occurred on Tishri 15.

From my study of the matter, coming from a protestant belief system, growing up faithfully celebrating both Christmas and Easter, I've concluded, from a large amount of evidence, that both days have absolutely no relationship in anyway to Christ.

Both Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, practices, ceremonies, and Easter/"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.

I’m guessing you simply slipped when you said this, but the Word was made flesh at the conception of Christ, not at His birth.

Based on the scripture of John 1:1-14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.", I'm inclined to use the day of birth, not conception. Also, conception more likely occurred on pre-Hanukah, as a shadow of what would come.

All of these happenings, timings, etc. are all PERFECTLY orchestrated - meaning only a Divine entity is capable of pulling something like this off.