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Lutherans receive Communion at Vatican after meeting with Pope: report
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lutherans-receive-communion-at-vatican-after-meeting-with-pope-report ^

Posted on 01/22/2016 2:40:45 PM PST by piusv

ROME, January 21, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – A group of Finnish Lutherans were offered Holy Communion by priests at a mass held at the Vatican following a meeting with Pope Francis, according to a report by the Finnish periodical Kotimaa 24.

The Lutherans were members of an annual ecumenical delegation to Rome on the part of Catholics, Orthodox, and Lutherans to celebrate the feast day of St. Henry of Uppsala, who is credited with the evangelization of Finland in the 12th century.

After an audience with the pope, the delegation was present at a celebration of the Catholic mass. According to a Lutheran bishop who was present, at the time of communion the non-Catholics placed their right hands on their left shoulders, a traditional way of indicating that they were ineligible to receive the Eucharist. However, the celebrating priests insisted on giving them communion.

Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].” He added that “this was not a coincidence,” and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband. The original article, written in Estonian, was translated for LifeSiteNews by Voice of the Family's Maria Madise.

RELATED: Pope’s advice to Lutheran woman: A clue to how he’ll rule on Communion for the ‘remarried’?

At that time the pope acknowledged that “explanations and interpretations” of communion may differ between Catholics and Lutherans, but “life is bigger than explanations and interpretations.” He advised the woman to “Talk to the Lord and then go forward.”

“At the root of this there is, without a doubt, the ecumenical attitude of a new Vatican,” Salmi told Kotimaa 24. “The pope was not here at the mass, but his strategic intention is to carry out a mission of love and unity. There are also theological adversaries in the Vatican, for which reason it is difficult to assess how much he can say, but he can permit practical gestures.”

Canon 844 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law only permits the Eucharist to be given to Catholics in the state of grace (that is, not in a state of grave sin), except in cases of non-Catholics who request communion and who are from churches that are approved by the Holy See as holding the same faith as Catholics regarding communion. Lutherans have traditionally been seen as not holding to the same faith as Catholics on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

In addition to its implications for Catholic-Lutheran relations, the event may also represent the pope’s liberal inclinations regarding the giving of communion to other groups, such as those who are divorced and civilly remarried without having received an annulment of their previous marriage.

Francis has repeatedly insinuated that he wants to change the practice of refusing communion to the divorced and remarried, speaking warmly of Catholic theologians – such as Cardinal Walter Kasper – who advocate such an approach. However, he has yet to announce any decision on the matter.

In his remarks to the Finnish delegation, Francis seems to hint at the movement towards intercommunion when he tells the ecumenical delegation, “Your dialogue is making promising progress towards a shared understanding, on the sacramental level, of Church, Eucharist and Ministry. These steps forward, made together, lay a solid basis for a growing communion of life in faith and spirituality, as your relations develop in a spirit of serene discussion and fraternal sharing.”

The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.

“It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,” he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.”

“It’s not a personal desire or a personal dialogue with Jesus that determines if I can receive Communion in the Catholic Church,” he added. “How can I know that the Lord has really said: ‘Come and receive My Body.’ No. A person cannot decide if he is able to receive Communion. He has to have the rule of the Church: i.e., being a Catholic, being in a state of grace, properly married [if married].”


TOPICS: Ecumenism
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1 posted on 01/22/2016 2:40:45 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv
Canon 844 of the Catholic Church Code of Canon Law only permits the Eucharist to be given to Catholics in the state of grace (that is, not in a state of grave sin), except in cases of non-Catholics who request communion and who are from churches that are approved by the Holy See as holding the same faith as Catholics regarding communion. Lutherans have traditionally been seen as not holding to the same faith as Catholics on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

The bolded being the slippery slope. Previously the Church NEVER allowed non-Catholics to receive communion unless they first converted to the Catholic Faith...whole and entire.

So when Lutherans and other non-Catholics are allowed to receive communion and when the divorced and remarried are allowed to receive communion, look no further than JPII's 1983 Code of Canon Law...which was the codification of Vatican II.

2 posted on 01/22/2016 2:44:41 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

Since Francis treats Communion so carelessly, one might conclude that he doesn’t believe in the real presence, at least not as the Church teaches.


3 posted on 01/22/2016 2:53:00 PM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

*Real Presence, I should say.


4 posted on 01/22/2016 2:53:17 PM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: piusv

Christians should put aside their differences and unite to face the latest “Siege of Vienna”, the moslem onslaught against Europe.


5 posted on 01/22/2016 2:53:38 PM PST by captain_dave
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To: piusv

I truly believe that Bergoglio does not believe in Transubstantiation.

He kneels to receive “blessings” from heretics. He kneels when he washes the feet of women and non-Catholics on Holy Thursdays. But he will not genuflect when he consecrates the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.

He treats Holy Communion like it is just a communal meal, meant for all.


6 posted on 01/22/2016 2:55:26 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

Don’t forget the “miracle of sharing”.


7 posted on 01/22/2016 2:59:15 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

permitting a Lutheran to receive communion is one thing (and we will discuss, for sure, here) but
permitting a Pelosi (pushing millions of our tax dollars to the baby-killing factories called ‘planned parenthood’) is yet another

Canon Law exists to deny communion to the Pelosis of the world.

Let the Church do that FIRST.


8 posted on 01/22/2016 2:59:17 PM PST by faithhopecharity ("Politicians are not born, they're excreted." Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 -- 43 BCE))
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To: faithhopecharity

No, let the Church do what it has always done: not allow non-Catholics AND Catholics not in a state of grace to receive communion.


9 posted on 01/22/2016 3:00:55 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

This should not surprise anyone. Pope John Paul II signed an agreement with several Lutheran Synods about a dozen years ago to offer Communion at joint services on special occasions.

I don’t know which synod the Finns belong, but it seems to me that this would be covered. I attended just such a service (and there were several in the area) that was jointly concelebrated with 3 Catholic churches and about 5 Lutheran churches of the area. I don’t think it was a Mass (it was along time ago) but each pastor spoke and read prayers, and the choirs from all of the churches were combined. Communion was offered to all.

I was amazed to see the number of Catholics from our parish there, with Lutheran spouses. These celebrations may have been peculiar to Wisconsin, however, because none of my kids in other states even heard about this mo0mentous occasion. The agreement followed years of negotiations and was signed in Switzerland. I know that the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods refused to sign, so they were not included. Certainly ELCA was well represented. And some other smaller synods, as well.


10 posted on 01/22/2016 3:10:16 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

So if it wasn’t a Catholic mass, it wasn’t the Eucharist, correct? It was Lutheran bread, yes?

Did the Catholics, including the priests, eat it?


11 posted on 01/22/2016 3:17:52 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

paragraphs 153 thru 161 of this document could be of interest???

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html


12 posted on 01/22/2016 3:22:36 PM PST by faithhopecharity ("Politicians are not born, they're excreted." Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 -- 43 BCE))
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To: piusv

this may be of interest (especially paragraphs 153—161)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

Best,
fhc

ps: sorry if this shows up twice, it didn’t seem to display the first time I sent it thru the internet so here it is (again, possibly) just to be sure.


13 posted on 01/22/2016 3:27:47 PM PST by faithhopecharity ("Politicians are not born, they're excreted." Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 -- 43 BCE))
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To: piusv

Nothing Francis does surprises me anymore. He could care less who receives Holy Communion and he never tells protestants they need to convert. He’s met with the who’s who of liberal protestants in the country, from black protestants that call themselves bishops and deacons to grinning Joel Osteen and Rick Warren. He addressed TD Jakes as bishop and never asked a one of them to convert, calling them all “brothers in Christ”. The Catholic Church has had some bad popes in the last 2,000 years, and Francis is right at the top.


14 posted on 01/22/2016 3:29:54 PM PST by NKP_Vet (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle,stand like a rock ~ T, Jefferson)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

A Lutheran Holy Communion is not valid because no priest is present to consecrate the host. All priests that left the church during the Reformation for breakaway sects can not turn the wine and bread into the blood and body of Christ. They have no Holy Orders. No Catholic should attend these services.


15 posted on 01/22/2016 3:38:47 PM PST by NKP_Vet (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle,stand like a rock ~ T, Jefferson)
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To: faithhopecharity

Why would that make a difference? The Church has always taught that non-Catholics should not receive the Eucharist regardless of one’s “understanding of the Real Presence”. They HAD TO convert first...and actually BE CATHOLIC.

All of this is a direct result of the false ecumenism promoted at Vatican II.


16 posted on 01/22/2016 3:39:11 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: NKP_Vet
All priests that left the church during the Reformation for breakaway sects can not turn the wine and bread into the blood and body of Christ.

Why?

17 posted on 01/22/2016 3:41:50 PM PST by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin

Well, it is true now, but at the start of the Reformation there were priests who were still properly ordained (and could still confect the Eucharist). Over time, however, those priests died and the Old Rite was changed so that it was no longer a Catholic Rite. As a result, the New Rite became invalid and did not ordain true Catholic priests that can confect the Eucharist.


18 posted on 01/22/2016 3:48:16 PM PST by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

There must have been a Mass. It was just so long ago, that I have forgotten. sorry to say, but the homilies and the choir were so outstanding that I’ve forgotten whether there was a Mass. It was held in a Catholic Church and the Priests presiding were Catholic, but the Lutherans fully participated.

Certainly you can have the Eucharist without the Mass, if the bread has been consecrated before (and yes, it was regular wafers). Eucharistic ministers bring the Eucharist to shut-ins all the time without the Mass. The bread was consecrated at a regular Mass and then is taken out by designated ministers, or relatives, to deliver to the shut in. My husband brought me the Eucharist when I was recuperating from my knee replacement surgery.


19 posted on 01/22/2016 3:48:59 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: NKP_Vet

The service I attended was held in a Catholic Church and presided over by Catholic priests. The Lutherans were there to represent their various groups and participated by giving part of the homily and through their choirs. There was another, similar, service down at the Cathedral presided over by the Archbishop. The Lutherans present all took Catholic Communion. Nobody took “Lutheran Communion”.


20 posted on 01/22/2016 3:52:02 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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