Posted on 06/19/2015 12:01:57 PM PDT by RnMomof7
The Catholic Church teachings are based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Matt 23:9Jesus said to call no man up on this earth father.
Since God commanded the Israelites to NEVER drink the blood, way back in Leviticus 3:17, what the catholic church teaches about the literal blood and flesh of Jesus must be in error. No matter how many times we show catholics on these threads that the bread and wine are typology, metaphors for the flesh and blood about to be sacrificed for the world, the catholics on these threads insist Jesus told them to cannibalize His body and blood.
A person receives forgiveness of original and actual sins at Baptism later through the Sacrament of Reconciliation then as one follows God’s will throughout one’s life. Then receives God’s judgement when he dies.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Christ has abundantly provided for our salvation, but that does not mean that there is no process by which this is applied to us as individuals. Obviously, there is, or we would have been saved and justified from all eternity, with no need to repent or have faith or anything else. We would have been born “saved,” with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled to God. And if so, then we, like Adam and Eve, can become unreconciled with God and, like the prodigal son, need to come back and be reconciled again with God, after having left his family.
“As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/assurance-of-salvation
Your comment:”Matt 23:9Jesus said to call no man up on this earth father.”
First, as we’ve seen, the imperative “call no man father” does not apply to one’s biological father. It also doesn’t exclude calling one’s ancestors “father,” as is shown in Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to “our father Abraham,” or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of “our father Isaac.”
Second, there are numerous examples in the New Testament of the term “father” being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker. There are, in fact, so many uses of “father” in the New Testament, that the Fundamentalist interpretation of Matthew 23 (and the objection to Catholics calling priests “father”) must be wrong, as we shall see.
Third, a careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, “But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).
The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term “teacher,” in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” (1 Tim. 2:7); “For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher” (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: “God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers” (1 Cor. 12:28); and “his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers” (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as “teachers.”
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. (See below on the apostolic example of spiritual fatherhood.) To refer to such people as fathers is only to acknowledge the truth, and Jesus is not against that. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.
As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father
Don’t be.
It is possible that others will read your posts. And sometimes the Holy Spirit inspires the doubters.
Justification is a legal proclamation. It is not a decision held for the lifetime of the accused then applied if the accused earns the right to the proclamation. Jesus has been sacrificed ONCE FOR ALL FOREVER. Jesus told the rulers:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
When they believe, what happens?
Acts 2:1-4 Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place. Suddenly there came from the sky a sound like the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit ...
Acts 10:44&45 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word. They of the circumcision who believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was also poured out on the Gentiles.
Justification happens in the minute one does what Jesus told the leaders they must do as the work God requires. God puts the exclamation point on that immediacy with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the believer.
At this point perhaps you are asking 'so what is the rest of living according to God's commandments supposed to accomplish if not making one worthy of Justification to be received upon death? ... That is a good question.
The Blood of Christ was not for drinking, it was for spreading upon the Mercy Seat in Heaven, so that the law of sin and death was then annulled for all, that is ALL who are in Christ. Paul says: Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Perhaps that causes you to ask, so who is walking 'after the spirit'? what does that mean? Another good question.
When we are born from above, that moment when in this life God justifies us because we place our faith in Christ, He adopts us into His family by the coming into us of His Holy Spirit. RomaNS 8:2-6 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Verse 3 Strongs Parallel Speaking Sacred N Copy/Paste For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
YOU CANNOT BE SPIRITUALLY MINDED IF YOU BELIEVE YOU MUST RE-SACRIFICE JESUS EACH TIME YOU ARE PERSUADTED OF HAVING VIOLATED THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. YOU CANNOT BE SPIRITUALLY MINDED IF YOU BELIEVE YOU MUST DRINK THE BLOOD OF CHRIST TO KEEP ABSOLVING YOUR SINS. Paul says there is therefore now, not after each Eucharist only, no condemnation for those who walk after the spirit. How do you walk after the spirit? ... By faith, by faithing in Him as the perfect Atonement for you and believing His blood covers the law of sin and death for you. When you partake of the Eucharist, you do so as an outward exhibition that you are spiritually accepting His Sacrifice, His blood on the law of sin and death, for you. You are not eating His literal flesh or drinking His literal blood. His blood was shed and spread upon the Mercy Seat for you. His blood was so perfect that it does not need to be shed over and over, into your belly, to cover the law of sin and death for you. You partake of the Eucharist IN REMEMBRANCE of His work for you. In faith you walk not after the flesh but after the spirit that is IN YOU by the presence of His Holy Spirit Who comes when you believe, as illustrated by Pentecost and the House of Cornelius.
Your comment:”what the catholic church teaches about the literal blood and flesh of Jesus must be in error”
No what you are saying is false.
The Catholic Church teaches what Jesus told us and was stated very explicitly in several places in the Bible and that he meant the exact words of “His Body and Blood” that were necessary for eternal life.
You can ignore the words of Jesus, but you are a false teacher if you state that Jesus and the Catholic Church are in error.
May God help you understand.
When God declares you Justified because of the Cross of Christ, how many of your behavior sins were int he future of that Cross? All of them. so when God looks at you the moment you believe Jesus paid for All Your Sins, how many of your behaviors are hideden from God's view? None, He sees the end fromt he beginning. so how many sins will you have to get absolution for after you first believe Jesus IS The Christ, your redeemer? None. BUT IN HEAVEN as part of the Bride of Christ, your purification will take place, burning off the wood, hay, and stubble of the life experiences as a member of His family having His Holy Spirit. If any works be left then they will be gold, silver and precious stones. But the key is realizing that life review happens in Heaven, not upon the earth in a daily walk.
When you are walking like a son of Adam, that will be wood, hay or stubble. When you are walking as His Spirit is raising you up in the Way that you should go, well that is most precious in God's sight. He has remembered your sin no more. You can never earn worthiness to be called the sons of God. That is why your Justification is so glorious, because it is only to Christ's Glory that such an astonishing thing can be focused. By trying to keep earning Justification you sully the Glory of What ONLY Christ can give to you and wants to immediately, Life as He has it.
You seem to be confused about the words of Jesus and His teaching. I hope that you read the whole article.
May God help you understand.
There is no way to be justified before God by any gastronomic process. It IS the Body sacrificed upon the Cross that is for your salvation, not the unleavened bread of the Eucharist which is for the remembrance of the sacrifice. It is by FAITH that you have His sacrifice when you take the unleavened bread, not by ingesting unleavened bread as the literal body of Christ. It is BY FAITH that His blood is shed for you and spread upon the Mercy Seat top cover the law of sin and death for you. It is not by swallowing the literal blood of Christ to be eventually expelled through the drought. Jesus said it is the words that he speaks:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Seeking absolution of sin by deeds of the flesh (eating His body, literally, drinking His blood, literally, constantly going to an institutional priest to confess and get forgiveness of sin, doing alms, doing good deeds) which generate pride in self does not obtain Justification. Of such trusting in works will Jesus declare, 'Depart from me, I never knew you.'
Your comment:”Therefore all those that are born again believers in Jesus will be of one mind on spiritual matters.”Well when you see any of that, be sure to point those who are on the wrong path to a relationship with Jesus.You really believe that?
The protest religions seem to continue make their own interpretations of the Bible. i.e. marriage and divorce, abortion, female clergy, same sex marriage, homosexuality, the Real Presence, etc?
Catholicism has their own "interpretations" of the Bible, Mary is the way to salvation, the real presence, etc.
At least one Kennedy was given an annulment after having kids and years of marriage so he could marry another.
Ted Kennedy was given a large mass (funeral service) in a Catholic church and he was a womanizer and a supporter of abortion.
Born again believers in Jesus are those that with all their heart and soul follow Jesus and what He taught.
Yes, they will fall but when they do they bring it to Jesus, our only Mediator between us and God the Father, and our High Priest.
With a repentant heart they are forgiven.
Broad brushing really doesn't cut it.
First of all, please don’t use the term “dear lady,” it’s very condescending.
I used the phrase correctly. You point out the sin and evil of the Catholic church believing the protestant denomination doesn’t have evil or sinful people at all levels. Again, clean your own house first.
I was raised Southern Baptist. The first church we were members of, the preacher was diddling the Secretary and he convinced ALL the deacons to hand over the deed to the pastoral home owned by the church to him. Then he retired. He was a thief and an adulterer.
My parents left disgusted and we joined a different SB church. That preacher was diddling his Secretary as well and they stole a bunch of money and took off.
Now, should every member of the SB convention leave because of sinful, wicked pastors? Can I now judge every single SB the same as the preacher? Of course not. That is ludicrous. And yet the protestants that continuously post these threads do exactly that. One of the many reasons why I became Catholic.
Jesus taught unanimity but used different words.
It’s the Mind of Christ thing and all it entails.
Your comment: “Broad brushing really doesn’t cut it.”
Born again believers in Jesus are those that with all their heart and soul follow Jesus and what He taught.
That is great. I encourage all to do God’s will.
Then they shouldn’t make false statements about the Catholic faith:
If they don’t want to believe in the Real Presence and as Jesus has stated as the food for eternal salvation, then they may not be following God’s will. But to insist that Jesus is wrong with convoluted logic, then they have stepped over the line and Catholics will defend the teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church.
The same with the Blessed Mother. We do not worship Mary, but we place her in high esteem and defend the Church’s teachings.
God will judge Ted Kennedy. I do not understand the annulment of his marriage. If not done properly, the the responsible party will answer to God. The Catholic Church is composed of saints and sinners. I do not understand how any Catholic can vote for a democrat who supports abortion, but then many Catholic women have abortions. Catholics do not always do God’s will. I can imagine God’s disappointment in all of us.
It seems to me that the Catholic Church has well thought out positions on the faith based on the teachings of Jesus. On the other hand, it seems that the protestors have their personal opinion and weak logic and facts to support their comments.
As far as straying from the Bible, many individuals stray, and many protestant churches have also strayed. For example on marriage:
Faiths Allowing Same-Sex Marriages
United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-sex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-sex marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies. Some conservative and re-constructionist synagogues do as well.
Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-sex marriages among Quakers.
Metropolitan Community Church
Unitarian Universalist
Unity Church
Faiths Allowing Limited Same-Sex Marriage
Episcopal: In the Episcopal Church, priests are authorized to bless same-sex wedding ceremonies but not declare the marriage official or sign the marriage license. Certain dioceses can perform full marriage ceremonies.
Lutheran: Lutheran churches can decide, on a church-by-church basis, whether or not to perform same-sex marriage.
Faiths Disallowing Same-Sex Marriages
Baptists: Southern Baptist and Conservative Baptist churches will not conduct same-sex marriages, nor will they allow them to be held in their churches. Some American Baptist churches are open and inclusive.
Methodist
Catholic
Presbyterian (some will bless ceremonies)
In addition, I do not know of any Eastern religions which sanction gay marriage and perform same-sex marriage ceremonies.
Here’s another one on the list.
The most interesting thing I've noticed on all the Religion threads is that any time I make the statement about the veil being torn removing the barrier between man and God, not a single Catholic refutes that statement or attempts to engage me further.
As I said .. "Interesting."
It's also "interesting" that the threads I make that statement on have a tendency to disappear like one did earlier this week. Not sure if that's because of the statement or some other reason.
Your comment: “I have NOT ONCE stated that Jesus is wrong.”
I disagree with your statement.
You have ignored the words of Jesus and by your comments accuse Jesus of not speaking the Truth.
John 6
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Matthew 26
The Lord’s Supper. 26* j
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said,
“Take and eat; this is my body.”* k 27
Then he took a cup, gave thanks,* and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, 28l for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
Perhaps one’s position is so fixed it can not or will not understand the true meaning of the words of Jesus.
Or perhaps there is so much animosity towards the Catholic Church that unless one becomes a Catholic, then one can not properly receive the Body and Blood of Jesus that Jesus said to Eat and Drink this for everlasting life.
The spirit vs. flesh argument is specious.
When Jesus used verily, verily he was always focusing their attention on a spiritual truth He was about to give them. The manna was not the body of Jesus, it was manna, but it foreshadowed the bread from Heaven at the Cross, which is applied to give LIFE by spiritual activation, as in faithing in the Promise of God. I'm not surprised a staunch catholic apologist cannot fathom that, seeing as how Catholicism is a mystery religion.
Your declaration that 'the spirit versus flesh argument is specious' is symptomatic of blindness so deep that you refuse to see.
Here is yet another example, betty boop.
Wrong. Paul told the same church,
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (1Co. 11:1) And there are no real contradictions.
Not only Lampe, but Catholic researchers as well .
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