Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

12 Claims Every Catholic Should Be Able to Answer: Claim #6
CERC ^ | 2003 | DEAL HUDSON

Posted on 01/12/2015 11:59:16 AM PST by NYer

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081 next last
Most objections about the Church’s alleged wealth is in regard to the art in the Vatican. Most of the art represents the work of Christians who wanted to place their talents at the service of God through the Church. The artwork is an example of their religiosity and is not for sale. Had the Church not preserved the art, much of it would have been destroyed through the ages. Such art is part of our heritage as Christians and indeed as human beings, and few people of any persuasion who appreciate such world culture would truly prefer that these treasures have been put into the control of secular commerce.

In Matthew 26:6ff we read,

A woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? For the ointment might have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."

Likewise, many of the great cathedrals of Europe were built with donations and labor from the poor, who wanted to build such monuments to God’s goodness and sovereignty. The Vatican does not control enormous liquid wealth, and its annual operating budget has been compared to that of a large archdiocese such as that of Chicago.

In spite of this, the Catholic Church is still one of the most giving institutions on earth, running and supporting countless charities, relief organizations, hospitals, and similar enterprises at great cost to the Church. Ref

1 posted on 01/12/2015 11:59:16 AM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; Salvation; ...

Ping!!


2 posted on 01/12/2015 11:59:53 AM PST by NYer (Without justice - what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I’m not Catholic, but this has in general always seemed a poor argument to me.

In the past, high churchmen often led lavish lives. As great aristocrats of the Church they expected to live similar to great secular aristocrats. And they did.

Possibly I’m just ill-informed, but I don’t believe this is as much the case as it used to be a few centuries ago.

The Church owns real estate in cities worth enormous sums. Much of it is in churches and cathedrals, which don’t exactly have a whole lot of alternative uses.

It is, IMO, debatable whether the Church should have spent such immense sums on art and architecture. Is that part of its mission?


3 posted on 01/12/2015 12:14:51 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
In Matthew 26:6ff we read, A woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? For the ointment might have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."

I know Jesus. And Rome ain't Him.

4 posted on 01/12/2015 12:19:03 PM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a preacher of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Army officer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; metmom; Alex Murphy; CynicalBear; boatbums; RnMomof7
The art doesn't even provide the Church with wealth; actually, it's just the opposite. The Holy See invests quite a bit of its resources into the upkeep of the collection.

Kind of a self inflicted wound.

Poor Rome, has to spend all this money to upkeep it's priceless art collection. (And for 16 Euros you can see it all for yourself!)

5 posted on 01/12/2015 12:22:33 PM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a preacher of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Army officer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
The Church owns real estate in cities worth enormous sums.

Those churches are not owned by the Church. They were built by locals with their own resources. Trust me on this one ... because I have just gone through the process. Our parish purchased a former Methodist/Episcopal church that was closed and shuttered. The church had been sold to a local family on condition that it never be resold for commercial use. We used our own funds to acquire the church and our own funds to restore it. The Church gave us nothing.

Insofar as the artwork, much of it was gifted to the Church. The Church acts a a guardian. Artwork is maintained through other resources, such as Vatican Patrons.

6 posted on 01/12/2015 12:26:38 PM PST by NYer (Without justice - what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

As stated, in general I agree.


7 posted on 01/12/2015 12:30:31 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer

#13
If baby baptism is legit for all Catholics, why isn’t at least one specific baby baptized in the New Testament?


8 posted on 01/12/2015 12:38:50 PM PST by bramps (Go West America!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Revelation 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
9 posted on 01/12/2015 12:43:35 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

**The pope doesn’t “own” these works of art and couldn’t sell them if he wanted to; they’re merely in the care of the Holy See. The art doesn’t even provide the Church with wealth; actually, it’s just the opposite. The Holy See invests quite a bit of its resources into the upkeep of the collection.**

So many are misguided in their judgments about sacred art.


10 posted on 01/12/2015 12:44:56 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bramps

Whole households were baptized. Lydia’s for example by Paul. Although infants are not mentioned in Scripture directly, undoubtedly their were very young children or babies.


11 posted on 01/12/2015 12:47:09 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

“Kind of a self inflicted wound.”

No wound at all.


12 posted on 01/12/2015 12:54:46 PM PST by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bramps

“If baby baptism is legit for all Catholics, why isn’t at least one specific baby baptized in the New Testament?”

It must be one the same page that the inspired Table of Contents is on.


13 posted on 01/12/2015 12:55:52 PM PST by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: bramps
If baby baptism is legit for all Catholics, why isn’t at least one specific baby baptized in the New Testament?

Luke 18:15-16

On the other hand, nowhere do we read of children raised in believing households reaching the age of reason and then being baptized. The only explicit baptism accounts in the Bible involve converts from Judaism or paganism. For children of believers there is no explicit mention of baptism—either in infancy or later.

14 posted on 01/12/2015 12:58:54 PM PST by NYer (Without justice - what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer
When some people think of Vatican City, what they immediately picture is something like a wealthy kingdom,

Gee. I wonder why.......


15 posted on 01/12/2015 1:00:48 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; bramps

Assumptions are pretty poor things to make doctrine about.


16 posted on 01/12/2015 1:02:14 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
It is, IMO, debatable whether the Church should have spent such immense sums on art and architecture. Is that part of its mission?

Quite a bit of the artwork was given as gifts by various people/ groups/ countries. I personally would not mind if they sold some of it, but how do you decide which to sell. I might feel a bit insulted if i gave them a Picasso and they sold that but kept the Dali that my sister gave them.

In regard to the architecture Look in the Bible at the description of the Ark, the vestments, and the Temple.

They gave the very best they had when they picked the animals to sacrifice. The other offerings they gave were the first fruits, the very best they had.

Why would we do any different?

17 posted on 01/12/2015 1:08:07 PM PST by verga
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: metmom
 photo moz-screenshot-5.jpg
18 posted on 01/12/2015 1:12:57 PM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a preacher of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Army officer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: verga

I am somewhat conflicted about this issue. But I don’t see a direct parallel between the Ark and Temple of Judaism and the church buildings of Christ.

Jesus lived quite a humble life, and immense pageantry and display in His service don’t seem to me entirely appropriate.


19 posted on 01/12/2015 1:20:20 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

yep


20 posted on 01/12/2015 1:27:47 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson