Posted on 01/12/2015 11:59:16 AM PST by NYer
Freedom of speech is a great thing. Unfortunately, it comes at an unavoidable price: When citizens are free to say what they want, theyll sometimes use that freedom to say some pretty silly things. And thats the case with the 12 claims were about to cover.
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Some of them are made over and over, others are rare. Either way, while the proponents of these errors are free to promote them, we as Catholics have a duty to respond.
6. "If the Church truly followed Jesus, they'd sell their lavish art, property, and architecture, and give the money to the poor."
When some people think of Vatican City, what they immediately picture is something like a wealthy kingdom, complete with palatial living accommodations for the pope and chests of gold tucked away in every corner, not to mention the fabulous collection of priceless art and artifacts. Looking at it that way, it's easy to see how some people would become indignant at what they think is an ostentatious and wasteful show of wealth.
But the truth is something quite different. While the main buildings are called the "Vatican Palace," it wasn't built to be the lavish living quarters of the pope. In fact, the residential part of the Vatican is relatively small. The greater portion of the Vatican is given over to purposes of art and science, administration of the Church's official business, and management of the Palace in general. Quite a number of Church and administrative officials live in the Vatican with the pope, making it more like the Church's main headquarters.
As for the impressive art collection, truly one of the finest in the world, the Vatican views it as "an irreplaceable treasure," but not in monetary terms. The pope doesn't "own" these works of art and couldn't sell them if he wanted to; they're merely in the care of the Holy See. The art doesn't even provide the Church with wealth; actually, it's just the opposite. The Holy See invests quite a bit of its resources into the upkeep of the collection.
The truth of the matter is that the See has a fairly tight financial budget. So why keep the art? It goes back to a belief in the Church's mission (one of many) as a civilizing force in the world. Just like the medieval monks who carefully transcribed ancient texts so they would be available to future generations — texts that otherwise would have been lost forever — the Church continues to care for the arts so they will not be forgotten over time. In today's culture of death where the term "civilization" can only be used loosely, the Church's civilizing mission is as important today as it ever was.
The Diocese owns those churches...In my area churches are being closed left and right.. and it is the "bishop" that closes and the Diocese that places the for sale sine and collects the money IF it sells..if not they just let it become an eye sore like a slum.. the "people who built it (as you say) have no say in that churches future or the schools building when the bishop shutters them and none of THEIR money is returned to them ...like it or not ..those buildings are part of Romes net worth
PLEASE do not cry to us about the cost of "preservation..
The church across the street was bought by a lovely group of Spanish nuns. Their order purchased it to bring more young women into their fold. It's sad to see empty churches of any denomination. In fact, the synagogue down the street closed last year and I cried!
Anyway, this is probably my favorite happy ending to a closed church: http://www.churchbrew.com
What does that have to do with baptism? Every example of baptism in the NT was a conscious act of a believer who was baptized into Jesus to remove their sins (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:14, Rom. 6, etc.) However, those who have little regard for the word, or prefer to have it added to and then fed to them by church leaders, are unconcerned.
BKMRK
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They're turning water into beer there!
Am entire country in one photo.
Because it wasn’t a matter of controversy. Famously, Jesus is not recorded to have said anything against sodomy. Does that mean, as gay activists claim, he approved of it? Of course not. It means that it was a non-issue.
The first time in history it is mentioned that Christian parents DELAYED baptizing a child is in the fourth century. And they were heretics.
The beer is heavenly and the food is devine. We only get there about two or three times a year and it’s a real treat.
Most of the 2,400 lay workers who comprise the majority of the Vatican workforce reside outside the Vatican and are citizens of Italy, while a few are citizens of other nations. Vatican City has a reasonably well developed transport network considering its size (consisting mostly of a piazza and walkways). The City is served by an independent, modern telephone system, the Vatican Pharmacy, and post office. The Vatican Gardens, the Vatican Observatory and other areas are available to the public.
The Vatican also controls its own Internet TLD, which is registered as (.va). Broadband service is widely provided within Vatican City. Vatican City has also been given a radio ITU prefix, HV, and this is sometimes used by amateur radio operators.
Contrast that with Joel Osteen's residence.
Osteen's net worth? As of 2012, his net worth is reportedly $56,508,500. Houston CultureMap reported in 2010 that the Osteens moved into a home in the River Oaks area of Houston, Texas, that was valued at $10.5 million. The same article reported that the Osteens had kept a former residence valued at $2.9 million while listing a vacant lot near their former home for $1.1. million.
Rick Warren? $25 million dollars. Pope Francis' annual salary? Zero
Your post, of course, was never intended to address the positive aspects of the Catholic Church but to formulate an attack on 2000 year's of accumulated gifts over which the church serves as guardian.
The NYT, not known as a friend of the Church, estimates the value of the entire Vatican at $10-14 billion, which is half the endowment of Harvard University. The Vatican staff is smaller than the staff of the University of Notre Dame.
There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide.
Rome, beside its priceless art collection o has vast gold deposits and billions of dollars in assets. It also earns a significant amount of income from the tourism sector as the Vatican is considered an independent city-state. .... The Popes crowns, and gold altar artifacts and his "vestments " have much greater momentary value than Olseen house..by a long run .... The Pope is worth every penny he is paid BTW
**Assumptions are pretty poor things to make doctrine about.**
True, but they seem to be pretty good things to make money with. Would you like to try and estimate what the whole ‘assumption of Mary’ doctrine has done in RCC income?
**The first time in history it is mentioned that Christian parents DELAYED baptizing a child is in the fourth century. And they were heretics.**
‘history’......hmm....and who wrote that history?
Of course, if you were there, then that settles it.
Well, with the ‘money preachers’, you’re basically preaching to the choir on this forum.
**Likewise, many of the great cathedrals of Europe were built with donations and labor from the poor, who wanted to build such monuments to God’s goodness and sovereignty.**
That’s nice. I’m sure none of the ‘donations and labor from the poor’ was provided because of various RCC teachings about ‘giving’ (such as, maybe trying to get that loved one out of purgatory).
Jesus told the woman that he saved from stoning to ‘sin no more’. Sodomy had previously been declared as a sin. Sin is sin. Useless analogy.
NYer, where does Luke say anything about baptizing babies?
What IS said in the New Testament is ‘repent and be baptized’, NEVER ‘be baptized and repent’. A baby has no ability to repent nor ask to be baptized.
And why do you think baptisms took place in rivers? Why not just bring out a bucket of water if ‘sprinkling’ is sufficient?
You act as if we defend Osteen and Warren. Suggest you do a search for the keyword YBPDLN.
That dog won’t hunt in this discussion.
Check the letters of St. Paul.
So what?
It's a far cry from Jesus who had nowhere to lay His head.
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