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To: WVKayaker
I already posted Paul's qualifications for the position of church leadership, and it clearly sets out that first the man must be a good father to his own children.

If your understanding is that one must be a father then that would disqualify Paul himself! No, what Paul is stating is that those fathers who are to be chosen must be a good father to one's own children. One that has shown that he cannot govern his own household is unfit to govern the church. But this does not mean that those not fathers are disqualified.

You also err in thinking that the ministries of the church are based on Scripture. No, the offices of episcopoi, presbuteroi and deaconoi were established prior to the completion of the New Testament and are not derived from it. This is a major misunderstanding of those who would advance sola scriptura. These offices were established by the authority of the church herself, an authority attested to by the Scriptures and which continues to exist.

33 posted on 12/17/2014 7:39:31 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

“No, the offices of episcopoi, presbuteroi and deaconoi were established prior to the completion of the New Testament and are not derived from it.”

Sorry, but the NT and OT have no beginning or ending date as they are eternal as our God.

John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Apostles were led by the Holy Spirit, so the the Scripture was indeed in their heart because our God was there.

The Church was established by God through Jesus Christ again the “Word” was already there. Oh it may have been wrote down on paper later on, but God led them with the word anyways.

Sola Scripture

Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!


35 posted on 12/17/2014 8:09:21 PM PST by mrobisr
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To: Petrosius
If your understanding is that one must be a father then that would disqualify Paul himself! No, what Paul is stating is that those fathers who are to be chosen must be a good father to one's own children.

We know exactly what Paul is stating because he stated it...A bishop, elder and deacon must be married with a proven record of successfully running his household full of kids...He said what he meant and meant what he said...

You also err in thinking that the ministries of the church are based on Scripture.

So scripture is based on the Catholic religion, which came before the scripture...

Perhaps you ought to read the scriptures to see what they really say about your false religion...You would then know how terribly wrong you are...

72 posted on 12/18/2014 3:38:22 PM PST by Iscool (e)
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To: Petrosius
You also err in thinking that the ministries of the church are based on Scripture. No, the offices of episcopoi, presbuteroi and deaconoi were established prior to the completion of the New Testament and are not derived from it. This is a major misunderstanding of those who would advance sola scriptura. These offices were established by the authority of the church herself, an authority attested to by the Scriptures and which continues to exist.

Wrong: The church did not begin based upon its own authority, which is a major misunderstanding of those who would advance sola ecclesia, but which common people following an itinerant Preacher and preachers who established their Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power.. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

While both men and writings of God are what they are regardless of the affirmation of men, yet they were established as being of God due to their heavenly qualities and affirmation.

God first provided express Divine revelation in a very limited extent to a few souls, manifesting His leaders as being of God via supernatural attestation and virtue. Thus men heeded Moses (if inconsistently). But as written, it is abundantly evidenced that Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44, etc.) to conflative complimentary writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus in principal they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)

Some of what was written was first expressed in oral tradition, and God today can provide private revelation (which most every SS preacher hopes for during the offering), but all is subject to testing by the assured word of God, the Scriptures, which tell is, "prove all things."

Scripture alone is the supreme standard, and sufficient in its formal (limited) and material aspects, and upon the weight of scriptural substantiation the believer can have strong assurance.

In contrast, RCs presume a novel assuredly infallible magisterium is essential to correctly determine what is of God, words and men, and it is upon the basis of this presumed assured veracity that the faithful RC has his assurance. Thus RCs are discouraged from objectively searching the Scripture in order to ascertain the veracity of what is preached, For to do so would be to doubt the claims of Rome to be the assuredly infallible magisterium.

77 posted on 12/18/2014 5:02:35 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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