Skip to comments.Why The Gays Are Winning
Posted on 05/21/2014 3:34:37 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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Yes, of course, without God everything becomes subjective. Morality becomes relative. But I’m hesitant to just say “homosexuality is wrong because my religion tells me”, because I’ve basically done that in front of like 20 people, and one replied “Which is why we need to get rid of religion”. I said “You mean get rid of me, right”? He replied “Well, no”, and I said “But you’d have to, because I’m not going to give up my religion willingly”. That gave him pause, but the point is I don’t like letting people think that without religion, problems just go away. But maybe I shouldn’t care what they think.
I have two points to make:
1)Regardless of whether or not your argument is ultimately religiously based, the "scientific" narrative of origins deviates from that of the Torah. Torah trumps "science" . . . always.
2)You need to get the idea that there is a separate category of life called "religion" out of your head. There is only G-d, and G-d's commandments apply to every aspect of life . . . "religious" or not. Furthermore, the only reason anything is objectively wrong is because of Divine decrees. There is no such thing as secular morality, secular ethics, or (ultimately) secular laws. There is only G-d. Unfortunately, conservatism is poisoned by the "western civilization" of Greco-Roman philosophy, which is precisely why this has been building for the past two thousand years. Plus conservatives make use of this identical "enlightenment" ideology in condemning islam.
The only “enlightenment” I will admit to is when Christ came and said “Let him without sin cast the first stone”. There is no such thing in Islam, however. Their popular saying “Jihad is our way” sums it up. They believe they’re perfectly justified in killing someone who doesn’t stack up to their standards.
The initial post I responded to invoked evolution as the reason homosexuality is wrong. You made the truth of evolution the ground of the rejection of homosexuality.
That makes you an "enlightenment" thinker. Of course, the vast majority of chrstians believe in evolution. Who needs an actual "First Adam" so long as the (lehavdil!) "second Adam" was real???
Very well, I’m one of those “enlightened” Christians who sees no conflict between science and religion. I don’t let science influence my religion, however. More like the other way around. I’m sure to some hardliners, this makes me no Christian at all, or at least not a good one. But there is nothing in the Bible that absolutely rules out evolution from occurring, and besides we don’t know everything about it yet, do we? No one can prove that we are 100% a product of it. And as far as my interest in science, God gave us a brain to use it, otherwise we would have just been born with a Bible in our hands.
There now; was that so hard to do?
I dont let science influence my religion, however.
Incorrect. You let it influence your cosmogony, which is a branch of theology.
More like the other way around. Im sure to some hardliners, this makes me no Christian at all, or at least not a good one.
Since I regard all forms of chrstianity as false, you need that worry about receiving such a label from me.
But there is nothing in the Bible that absolutely rules out evolution from occurring, and besides we dont know everything about it yet, do we? No one can prove that we are 100% a product of it. And as far as my interest in science, God gave us a brain to use it, otherwise we would have just been born with a Bible in our hands.
The peshat (plain sense) of the Torah is always historically accurate. History is dated from the Sixth Day of the creation week when Adam was created. Halakhically, we are now in the 5774th year from that event (with a few minor complications). The history of the world as recounted by G-d Himself in the Torah most certainly needs to be considered at least as evidence . . . unless one regards it as the speculation of stone age savages.
There is a spiritual dimension behind the physical dimension of the world. The ancient Sages of Israel were masters of the knowledge of these spiritual realities, which gave them insight on the physical world our "sophisticated" moderns could only dream of.
Well, I do believe in a spiritual world beyond this one, with angels, powers, principalities, the whole bit. But concerning the creation story, how much is literal and how much is symbolism? Because it clearly exists in other part of the Bible. For myself, I’m admitting that I don’t know.
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