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To: PhilipFreneau
Show you what?

You are claiming that Rev. 19 was fulfilled in 70AD. Rev. 19 is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

You are making the extraordinary claim that the second coming of Christ occurred in 70 AD.

Could you show me where Josephus (since he lived in 70AD) wrote that he saw the second coming of Christ. After all, EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM ...

I really don't expect a cogent answer ...

146 posted on 02/24/2014 1:12:28 PM PST by dartuser
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To: dartuser
>>>You are making the extraordinary claim that the second coming of Christ occurred in 70 AD.<<<

I am not making a claim at all. I am telling you that Christ came for those of his FIRST resurrection around A.D. 70, during the exact generation HE (CHRIST) said he would.

>>>Could you show me where Josephus (since he lived in 70AD) wrote that he saw the second coming of Christ. After all, EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM ...<<<

That is a fair question. But before I answer this second question from you; please answer a first question from me. First, some background . . .

Recall that Jesus gave these instructions to his disciples:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14 KJV)

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15 KJV)

And much later Paul made these statements:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Rom 10:17-18 KJV)

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)

Do those statements by Paul mean that Jesus' instructions in Matthew 24:14 and Mark 16:15 were fulfilled?

Philip

148 posted on 02/24/2014 2:04:16 PM PST by PhilipFreneau
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To: dartuser
You asked about Josephus. I thought you might be interested in the following. First consider this passage from Mark:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." (Mark 13:26-27 KJV)

This is Josephus translated by William Whiston, 1737:

"Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]

This is from a two volume set on Josephus by a different translator, Robert Traill, 1851:

“What I am about to relate would, I conceive, be deemed a mere fable, had it not been related by eye-witnesses, and attended by calamities commensurate with such portents. Before sunset were seen around the whole country chariots poised in the air, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and investing the cities.” (Volume II, Chapter VI, p.197.)

This is the same event described by Tacitus:

"There had happened omens and prodigies, things which that nation so addicted to superstition, but so averse to the Gods, hold it unlawful to expiate either by vows or victims. Hosts were seen to encounter in the air, refulgent arms appeared; and, by a blaze of lightning shooting suddenly from the clouds, all the Temple was illuminated. The great gates of the Temple were of themselves in an instant thrown open, and a voice more than human heard to declare, that “the Gods were going to depart.” [The Works of Tacitus, Vol 4, Book V, The Summary]

Note that according to the written estimates of his age, Tacitus would have been, at most, 14 when Jerusalem was destroyed. It is doubtful he was an eyewitness, unless he was a water boy, horse tender, or providing another service to the Roman armies. He married a senator's daughter, and later became a senator, himself; so his family may have had enough influence to allow him to tag along with the Roman armies. Alternately, he may have gotten his information from eye-witnesses.

Philip

240 posted on 02/25/2014 9:09:50 PM PST by PhilipFreneau
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