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What if ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ is Wrong?
The Christian Diarist ^ | October 20, 2013 | JP

Posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

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To: DariusBane

Do you consider yourself a good person?


321 posted on 10/20/2013 8:37:11 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

No provable is not subjective. That’s the point.


322 posted on 10/20/2013 8:38:30 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: Hoodat
There is a very very big 'if' that goes along with that. Being dead is not a permanent never-changing state when it comes to matters of the spirit.

There's no 'if' to it...And yes, being dead is permanent...

As Paul points out in the next chapter, there is a war that wages inside of him. When he is successful at putting to death self, then he is able to avoid sin. But when self rules, sin comes with it.

Absolutely...It's like those occasional goofy comedy spoofs where a guy sits with an angel on one shoulder and a little devil on the other...That's a pretty good picture of where we are at...

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

When we ask Christ to come into our lives, it does not spell the end of sin in our lives. Instead, it marks the beginning of a process where we can begin to root out the source of sin in our lives. And 100% of the time, the root to sin is fear.

That's true but what it does is end the penalty for sin...

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom_4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law

. Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom_7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Now here are what appear to be 2 conflicting statements by the apostle John...

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We are born again Christians who sin all to much but yet we do not and can not commit sin...How is that???

Even tho we sin, it is not counted in the final tally...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

This and the rest of chapter six explains how we work this out...

323 posted on 10/20/2013 8:42:41 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: redleghunter

Oh dear, Sunday School time. No I am not a good person, rather an unworthy toad.


324 posted on 10/20/2013 8:46:17 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: WVKayaker

Thank you for the compliment. God introduced me to His grace for the believer a full year before I found out what it was. I went around telling people “Here’s what God did for me and he’ll do it for you, too. I don’t know what it is, but it’s REAL.”

I was a dependent in Guantanamo from 1959-1966. There was a minor interruption for a year when Kennedy and Khruschev got into a squabble. I was in elementary school there. I didn’t know too many of you older kids. I could have “dated” your sister, though. :-)


325 posted on 10/20/2013 8:46:32 PM PDT by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

What if I do believe? Am I sinning now?


326 posted on 10/20/2013 8:48:35 PM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: redleghunter
Many quotes that are posted by non-Catholics were made by Augustine before his conversion while he was still focused on the heresy of Manichiaeism.
327 posted on 10/20/2013 8:49:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Iscool

??????????

Did God breath life into Adam?


328 posted on 10/20/2013 8:50:29 PM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: eyedigress

Hey, you’re way behind...


329 posted on 10/20/2013 8:56:35 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

I know. Thanks


330 posted on 10/20/2013 8:57:19 PM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: narses

If we present the gospel of Jesus Christ to others according to the Scriptures and they accept it, then we can assure them according to the Scriptures that God has forgiven them. On the other hand, when we present them with the gospel, and they reject it, we can assure and warn them that they are still in their sin and not forgiven by God. Recall the words of those who witnessed Jesus heal the man let down through the roof, of which Jesus said to him, “your sins are forgiven.” The reply to that statement was, “who can forgive sins but God?” They were right, Jesus was God, and only God can forgive sin committed against Him. You, I, nor anyone else has authority. God has given the Christian authority to show people the way and declare the truth. It’s God’s word that assures of forgiveness when we follow it’s dictates, not man’s.


331 posted on 10/20/2013 10:07:56 PM PDT by evangmlw
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To: alexander_busek

well, except for: Judaism, the various branches of Christianity, the various branches of Islam, then Mandeanism, Alawites, Druze and Zoroastrians, except for these, the other religions are pretty much, yeah the other gods exist. No harm to Odin if you worship Zeus.


332 posted on 10/20/2013 10:32:20 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: redleghunter

yes he was. he also wrote that his belief was we must persevere to the end. There is a subtle difference between what he wrote and the osas


333 posted on 10/20/2013 10:35:44 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Hoodat

Hus’ cases like others had a tinge of nationalism in it. The Czechs had gotten a Germanic king and were being absorbed into Germania, losing their identity.


334 posted on 10/20/2013 10:36:31 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Hoodat
Like most of the internecine religious wars fought in Europe (note: most, not all) between Christians, there was always a little bit of nationalism involved, especially from the 14th century onwards

Take this case, the Czechs: in the 8th and 9th centuries, the West Slavic peoples (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubs, Sorbs, etc) split from the East Slavic people, but they didn't differentiate among themselves until well into the late middle ages.

The first to get a definition of nationhood were the Czechs, who were the westernmost who "got civlization" from the Germans (who in turn had got it from the Romans.

They Christianized first and sent missionaries to the Polans, Vistulans etc.

But, tying yourself to a higher culture (the Germanic one) is always difficult -- you can get swamped. And that's what happened to the Czechs. They saw the wealth and prestige of the Holy Roman (German) Empire and wanted to be part of it, ending in the 14th century when their King was made King of the Romans.

The Poles on the other hand kept their distance -- their king was crowned a king by the holy Roman Emperor and later, when the Piast (the first) dynasty died out, they didn't join with the Hapsburgs but with the erstwhile pagan Jagiellons (Lithuanians), but that is another story

When you tie yourself to a stronger, richer culture, you get swamped, even if you are the ones who "conquered" the other (see what happened to the Manchu/Jurchens after they conquered China in the 17th century

Hus was a reaction against the Germanizing influence. The religious angle came secondary imho

For Luther, I believe that the aim of the northern Germanic princelings to break away from the HRE also played a big role

335 posted on 10/20/2013 11:17:51 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: gitmo

Beautifully stated! Thank you.


336 posted on 10/20/2013 11:36:51 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Cronos

If one doesn’t have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus they won’t know for sure. Otherwise, salvation would be like a roulette wheel. Depending on when and where you died, and if you had time to set everything right.
He is holding me in the palm of His hand and He said no one could take me out. I have no trouble believing that. Just make sure your trusting His blood to wash you clean from your sins. Ask Him to help you love and know Him. He will. Salvation is a love story it is a heart matter, having not much to do with the head. You can’t learn it with the head only and be saved.


337 posted on 10/20/2013 11:48:15 PM PDT by Ramonne
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

One truly born again has no need for worry in this regard. There is no doubt.


338 posted on 10/21/2013 12:29:32 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Iscool
Too bad...You could use that time more wisely by searching the scriptures...

You do know that the Rosary is mediating on the life of Christ through the scriptures?

339 posted on 10/21/2013 2:25:24 AM PDT by verga (Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis)
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To: redleghunter
When exactly was Judas saved? Jesus stated in John 13 that the disciples were all clean except for the betrayer. The only way to say Judas was “justified” is if you believe he ate the flesh and drank the blood at the LS. Then within RC doctrine Judas would be saved.

1 Cor 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

340 posted on 10/21/2013 2:31:52 AM PDT by verga (Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis)
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