It is part of the process of going main stream. It will be fun to watch the lies and cover ups and how they will move to a Trinitarian based Bible faith. They will act as if it is all natural and all the BOM and Joe Smith never happened...

21 posted on 04/09/2013 8:24:58 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)

Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

So THIS is why any question sent their direction always get batted back down to the lower levels!

22 posted on 04/10/2013 3:32:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: Colofornian; teppe

...that Hugh B. Brown did not believe the Book of Abraham was what the church said it was” ...

Heck; ANYone with two or more functioning brain cells to rub together 'believeth not' as well!

Right; teppe??

23 posted on 04/10/2013 3:35:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

The modern dissenters better be praying that there are no Danites or Porter Rockwells to do the work of the leaders.

The ones that make the news seem to be freelancers.

24 posted on 04/10/2013 3:37:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

- Elder John D. Lee (1812 – 1877), Danite and adopted son of Brigham Young, John D. Lee Diaries

"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

I believe he is leading the people astray, downward to destruction.

But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

I have my reasons for it.

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

See, now, what I have come to this day!

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enunciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

Excerpted from --> http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

25 posted on 04/10/2013 3:38:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

It is the controlling aspects of all organized religion that many of us are against.

I agree with you!

With only one exception: As long as the 'controlling' is along what the bible CLEARLY teaches; then I can put up with it.

I want a LEADER in my church; not a CONTROLLER.

Sadly; many church's leaders these days think they NEED to be a controller, too.

26 posted on 04/10/2013 3:42:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Some Lds become Christians in Christian churches; others don't ignore God's existence -- they simply have become suspicious about churches in general

One doesn't have to be only LDS to become disenchanted with 'church'.

There are zillions of folks that have been hurt by 'church' and will NEVER darken it's doors again.

Woe to whom the disenchantment has come!

Matthew 18:6

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

27 posted on 04/10/2013 3:47:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

The ONLY way to improve that is with GOATs!

28 posted on 04/10/2013 3:48:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

If I recollect; that used to be on Kolb Studio in the Grand canyon.

In my searching this morning, I could not find it; but DID find these...

Hermit's Rest - Grand Canyon

Kolb Studio - Grand Canyon

29 posted on 04/10/2013 4:13:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: editor-surveyor

Is there any question that Smith and Young are burning in Hell?

If they ain't; then it looks like the SLC Mormons WILL be!!!!

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

30 posted on 04/10/2013 4:21:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: editor-surveyor

OR shown where it came from!!

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

31 posted on 04/10/2013 4:22:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: editor-surveyor

You can be one of them without the threat of control, by just believing in him.

What's up with all this CONTROL you hateful bigots are ranting about?

Simple rules to follow is NOT control!!!

--MormonDude(My bishop SAID so!)

The Rules

Learn and obey all missionary rules.
Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
Don't debate or argue.
Center your mind on your mission.
Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
Cut your hair regularly.
Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
Be neat and clean.
Bathe frequently.
Use deodorant.
Polish your shoes.
Iron your shirt and business suit.
Arise at 6:30 A.M.
Study for 2 hours every morning.
Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
Exercise regularly.
Write in your journal regularly.
Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
Stay with your companion during all activities.
Do not go on road trips.
Do not leave your assigned area without permission
Do not watch television.
Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
Do not listen to the radio.
Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
Do not participate in musical groups.
Do not participate in athletic teams.
Do not sponsor athletic teams.
Do not engage in contact sports.
Do not engage in water sports.
Do not engage in winter sports.
Do not engage in motorcycling.
Do not engage in horseback riding.
Do not engage in mountain climbing.
Do not embark on a private boat.
Do not embark in a private airplane.
Do not handle firearms.
Do not handle explosives.
Do not swim.
Do not play full court basketball.
Do not play basketball in leagues.
Do not play basketball in tournaments.
You may play half-court basketball.
Never be alone.
Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
Be loyal to your companion.
Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
Pray with your companion every day.
Study with your companion every day.
Plan your work with your companion every day.
Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
Do not arise before your companion.
Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
Do not flirt.
Do not date.
Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
Do not telephone parents
Do not telephone relatives.
Do not telephone friends.
Do not telephone girlfriends.
Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
Take problems and questions to your mission president.
Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
Obey all mission rules.
Obey the laws of the land.
Do not get involved in politics.
Do not get involved in commercial activities.
Do not give any information about the area.
Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
Be courteous.
Provide community service.
Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
Your mission president must approve your housing.
Keep your housing unit clean.
Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
Maintain your health.
Eat a healthy diet.
Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
Follow the approved exercise program.
Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
Be immunized.
Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
Budget your money carefully.
Keep a record of what you spend.
Do not spend more than your companion.
Do not loan money.
Do not borrow money.
Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
Pay your bills before leaving an area.
Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
Do not waste money on souvenirs.
Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
Be a frugal photographer.
Do not accumulate excess baggage.
Obey custom laws and regulations.
Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
Do not drive without a license.
Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
Do not drive members’ cars.
Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
Use cars only on approved mission business.
Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
Be conscious of safety at all times.
Drive defensively.
Wear your seat belt.
Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
Know bicycle safety rules.
Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
Go directly to your new area when transferred.
Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

32 posted on 04/10/2013 4:24:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

This is huge and should adversely affect church membership but will it? ~~Doubtful.~~ YES!!!

33 posted on 04/10/2013 4:25:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

AT LAST

"At last I shall give myself to the desert again, that I, in its golden dust, may be blown from a barren peak broadcast over the sunlands. If you should desire news of me, go ask the little horned toad whose home is the dust, or seek it among the fragrant sage, or question the mountain juniper, and, by their silence, they will truly inform you."

34 posted on 04/10/2013 4:33:16 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)

HMMMmmm...

I’ve read this... somewhere....

35 posted on 04/10/2013 4:52:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

36 posted on 04/10/2013 5:01:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

AT LAST

"At last I shall give myself to the desert again,
that I, in its golden dust,
may be blown from a barren peak broadcast over the sunlands.
If you should desire news of me,
go ask the little horned toad whose home is the dust,
or seek it among the fragrant sage,
or question the mountain juniper,
and, by their silence, they will truly inform you."

Maynard Dixon

37 posted on 04/10/2013 5:17:31 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)

Sort of like a mormon Talmud!

38 posted on 04/10/2013 7:02:22 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)

>> “Sadly; many church’s leaders these days think they NEED to be a controller, too.” <<

.
Nico Laitanos = Control The People.

Yeshua usually gets it right.

39 posted on 04/10/2013 7:07:41 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)

disenchantment

Given that the Lds do quite well, missionary-wise, in the South Pacific...Here's a slight twist from the soundtrack, South Pacific, aptly renamed:

Some DISenchanted Evening

Some DISenchanted evening
You, like JoeSmith, may see a stranger,
you may see a stranger
Across a crowded grove
And somehow you know,
You know even then
That somewhere you'll see him
Again and again.

Some DISenchanted evening
Some demon may be laughin',
You may hear him laughin'
Across a crowded grove
And night after night,
As strange as a demon dares
The sound of his laughter
Will sing in your nightmares.

Who can explain it?
Who can tell you why?
Fools give you reasons,
Wise men never try.

Some DISenchanted evening
When you find your false god,
When you FEEL him call you
Across a crowded grove,
Then fly FROM his side,
And make him your dust
Or all through eternality you
May be in hell all alone, a bust

Once that false god has found you,
Never let him in.
Once that false god has found you,
Never make him kin!

40 posted on 04/10/2013 9:21:39 AM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)

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