Posted on 04/01/2013 8:51:02 AM PDT by Salvation
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The belief that the Mother of Jesus was never stained with any sin, original or personal, and was also free from all unruly desires or concupiscence. By itself, deliverance from original sin does not mean liberation from the defects that are the result of sin. Mary, like Christ, was not exempt from those limitations which imply no moral imperfection. She lived a normal human life, had to labor, and was subject to pain and fatigue. But concupiscence implies moral blemish because it may lead to sin by exciting the passions to act against the law of God, even when, through lack of consent, a person does not formally do wrong.
Closely tied in with her integrity or absence of concupiscence was Mary's immunity from every personal sin during life. Her sinlessness may be deduced from the Gospel title "full of grace," since moral guilt is irreconcilable with fullness of God's friendship. St. Augustine held that every personal sin must be excluded from the Blessed Virgin "because of the honor of God."
Bur then, I suppose the definition would have been a book! LOL!
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Jesus got half his DNA from Mary. Jesus was without sin. Therefor Mary was without sin. That’s how it seems to me. Case closed, why all the fuss?
Protestants in general make too little of Mary, Catholics too much.
This falls in the Too Much category that exceeds God’s proclamation of blessed Mary.
All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
What is it about “the fall” that people don’t get. Mary was a normal young lady, who was a virgin. That does not make her “sinless” .. because .. when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate of the apple, ALL MANKIND FROM THEN TO THE DAY OF JESUS DEATH, WERE DOOMED TO BE DESIGNATED AS “IN SIN”.
Mary was chosen because she was a virgin, but there was actually another reason too .. God could read her heart, and He knew she loved Him. God already knew she would be willing to be the mother of Jesus; before she was asked .. because God created us with free will and the power to choose .. therefore, Mary had the same opportunity to say NO. Mary’s statement to the angel was, “Be it unto me according to Thy Will”.
The only way a person gets rid of “original sin” is to accept Jesus as their Savior. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Mary did not have a way to become a “sinless” spirit person prior to the birth of the child she would carry.
It’s sad that people refuse to accept the truth.
When a person is saved, their spirit becomes renewed; or “sinless”. However, their flesh is still the same old stuff .. and Paul clearly taught us how to deal with our flesh. It’s a choice. Some people make better choices than others.
“Mary did not have a way to become a “sinless” spirit person prior to the birth of the child she would carry.”
You haven’t heard of the Immaculate Conception?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
You’re talking about two different things.
The Immaculate Conception deals with the impregnation of a woman who is still a virgin. To my knowledge, Mary is the only person who experienced that event.
Mary still did not have a “new spirit” .. even if she was a virgin. And .. she couldn’t have a new spirit, because it was not available until Jesus died.
She did receive a new spirit at the Day of Pentecost.
Did you even read the link? The Immaculate Conception is about Mary herself being conceived without original sin. That is how Mary was sinless when she gave birth to Christ.
THIS IS IMPORTANT- BECAUSE IF MARY EVER COMMITTED A SIN IT *WOULD*CHANGE*EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!*****
Why do religious idiots discuss this?
Well .. that was a physical imposibility. Mary’s parents would have been required to be “without sin” also .. and there was no provision for that before Jesus.
Sorry, no one was “sinless” after the “fall” of Adam and Eve. It was only changed after the death of Jesus.
You can refuse to believe the truth .. but maybe you need to search the scriptures for yourself .. instead of blindly believing something that was impossible to be true.
God didn’t require Mary to be “sinless” .. because God already knew that condition was impossible. She was a virgin and she loved God .. and those were the most important things.
You need to study the separation of the spirit and the flesh. Try reading an Amplified Bible - for starters. It is the most literal Greek translation of the Bible .. and it makes the Bible come alve.
All things are possible with God. But you knew that.
"The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul. "...was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin..." "The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was in her soul. Simultaneously with the exclusion of sin. The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam — from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death. "...by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race."
The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Saviour to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor.
I know there’s nothing I can say that will convince you, but I have to say it nevertheless. Grace is “God’s unmerited favor”, or in other words “I don’t get what I deserve”. For Mary to need God’s grace, she had to be conceived with the original sin just like every ordinary human, and she had sinned during her life. It was because of God’s grace, of which she was full, that she could become the mother of our Savior. Somebody else in this board summarized perfectly by quoting Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. That’s a pretty simple word, ALL, isn’t it?
Was Christ there with God the Father and the Holy Spirit at the very beginning of the Bible? (Read John 1)
Of course he was.
Thus, God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit at the beginning of time (remember that God has no timeline like we do) saw that Mary would be the Mother of Christ, born as an infant. Her original sin was then forgiven in advance, so that she could conceive through the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1)
Many seem to neglect this fact — that Mary was chosen in advance.
Have a blessed Eastertide.
Read about Joachim and Anne. They went to the temple and prayed and were overcome by the Holy Spirit, and thus Mary was conceived.
Please, please, do some more digging and don’t believe those pamplets you might have been inundated with.
Read about Joachim and Anne, the parents of Mary, please!
Hmmmmm ..?? after 3 years of Bible school .. I never heard of Joachim and Anne. How amazing is that .. maybe it’s because it’s not in the Bible.
You are free to believe what you choose to believe .. but please don’t be telling me I have to believe what you do.
Well, I can see you are set on a belief I cannot share.
But remember this; God did not float around the world willy-nilly doing whatever He wanted. He too was constrained by the laws He set up.
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You said, “Her original sin was then forgiven in advance,”
Well .. if that was true, then there would have been no need for Jesus to come to forgive our original sin, if God could just wave his magic wand and make the sin go away.
That’s illogical .. and God is not illogical. He told Adam and Eve .. if you eat of that tree of good and evil, you will surely die. Well, Adam and Eve didn’t die - not physically .. but they died spiritually.
God made the law of spiritual death .. he couldn’t flip a switch and change his mind to rid Mary of her spiritual condition. Therefore, Mary could not have received a new spirit before she had Jesus. And .. the Book of Acts clearly tells that she did accept Jesus as her Savior on the day of Pentecost - and thereby received her renewed spirit like all the others who were there in the upper room.
I’m sorry you can’t see this truth.
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