Posted on 03/15/2013 12:46:48 PM PDT by daniel1212
Yes, Obama carried the Catholic vote.
Then go to the Episcopal Church. It is right up to date with today’s “modern” thinking parallel with today’s liberal politics. People don’t understand, you don’t change a church’s doctrine like you shift a political stance. If you don’t like the doctrine, change churches. This Pope keeps it up and I’ll become a RC! The test will be if he allows communion for Pelosi and Biden...if he refuses giving them the Eucharist, then I’m gonna go knock in the big wooden door! I left the gay church behind a decade ago.
As a former Catholic, I can tell you factually that's not just a problem in the Catholic Church. When my wife and I left the Church in 1992, it was largely due to our parish being dominated by "Cafeteria Catholics" ... those who picked and chose what part of Catholic teachings they wished to abide by. There were other things too such as the dual standards that applied for high-powered political people who worked against the Church's interests while still maintaining their "Catholic" status with a nudge and a wink from Church leadership.
The totality of the two was very disheartening.
We found (or thought we did..) a good Biblical church after we left, only to be similarly disappointed, for much the same reasons.
While we eventually found a "Church home" and immersed ourselves in volunteer and other activities within, we've come to learn again that no matter where one goes, there will always be those who seek to either change the Church to what they want it to be, or pick and choose what they want to believe in.
For them, it's not about the Lord, it's about them being Lord to themselves. That ain't right whether it happens in the Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, Lutheran or non-Denominational church.
For us, the question then became are we judged by what they do in not adhering to the Church's doctrine, or are we judged by what we do in following Church teaching? Of course the answer is we're judged on how our hearts are with the Lord, we're not accountable for "them."
22 years later with much hindsight, that's the lesson. No church is perfect. Never will be because we're humans, sinners, and all fall short in the Lord's eyes.
So you blame the far most conservative group for the results of an election rather than those who voted liberal. Did it occur to you that the blame is on the others who do not voted like the evangelicals? And the supposedly conservative party for choosing a candidate that was a weak conservative.
And for immigration changes, which make it unlikely a real conservative will be elected soon, unless the evil of liberals will be more manifest due to that last election, and turn people against it, allowing a real conservative to be elected. Though i doubt it.
The low information media is trying to pick a fight. Maybe the poll should be of those leaving after attending Mass.
Amen!
It is interesting that of two areas mentioned - celibate clergy and all male priesthood - BOTH were not how the early church operated. It was traditional that men WERE married and that women DID have a place in the leadership of the local churches. These "traditions" were changed over time to what the Catholic Church considers its own way of operating.
It is also interesting that a few posters seemed to criticize those who desire some changes, reasoning that the RCC doesn't bow to popular opinions. Yet many of the doctrines and dogmas Catholicism holds to today are a result of what they call "unanimous consent" - a five dollar word meant to imply that everyone voted and agreed to whatever was decided. Granted, it is not getting it from the "world" but it can hardly be true that everything deemed to be of the faith came about by direct revelation from the Holy Spirit. Several even got started because many Catholics wrote and pleaded with the Vatican to make a dogma official (i.e., Assumption of Mary; Perpetual Virginity).
I do agree, however, that belonging to a specific faith tradition should imply agreement with all that this faith deems necessary for the faithful to follow. And, if the command refuses to make changes, one should find another place to worship if the issues are that important. As it is, we have plenty of examples of people who stick around anyway all the while publicly snubbing their collective noses at what it is they are called to obey. In that case, shouldn't the responsibility for ushering them out of the fellowship be incumbent on the leadership? At least for the benefit of others that think they can also follow the same example?
To be honest, I have to respect those Evangelicals that refused to vote for a psuedo-conservative even if it meant Obama won. As bad as he has been and may continue to be for America, we don't really know what Romney would have done had he gotten the job. Many conservatives were very uncomfortable with his liberal bent and his wishy-washy pro-life and homosexual marriage stands. I'm ashamed that I voted for him, now, actually. For better or worse, we have the president God allowed. Maybe in 2016 the GOP will have gotten the message that genuine Conservatives are DONE with holding our collective noses to vote for their guy and they will return to the principles that we KNOW are right.
It must truly suck to have such a small mind.
CAn we STILL pick on MORMONism?
and SATANism??
and ISLAM???
Percent: around 25% - those whose, after being conceived, will be killed by their mothers.
55,000,000 an approximate total of those, so far, in THIS country, who have lovingly been spared the awful sentence of living.
|
Are you still killing your unborn? -- GOD |
But here on FR, it's still the Catholics' fault he lost.
The church began in dissent from the magisterium, which like Rome presumed more than what was written, and the people who believed on Christ were right while the leaders were wrong.
However, while required celibate clergy and a distinctive sacerdotal class titled "priests" is not Scriptural, and while women were part of ministry, (Phil. 4:3), there were no women ordained as pastors, and which restriction is based on the Divine and creational order. You can see my debate here and here
An office which has never been open to women.
There was an office of "deaconess" in the ancient church, which existed primarily to assist women and girls during baptism. Early councils make it clear that deaconesses were not ordained and were not to be considered clerics.
Bishop/elder refers to the same office, (Titus 1:5-7) but nowhere does the Holy Spirit use the distinctive word for priest, high priest or priesthood (hiereus, archiereus, hierōsunē) to refer to NT pastors, except once as part of the general priesthood of all believers. (1Pt. 2:5) And which has been often shown on FR. All are called to sacrifice to God and minister to Him, and direct access to God, and need not the OT priesthood to offer daily atonement to take away sin. (Heb. 10:11)
Giving pastors the title priest was a result of developing Eucharistic theology and seeing pastors as a unique sacerdotal class, but which title the Holy Spirit never gave distinctively to them, while we do not see (see current thread, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2995066/posts?page=252#252) the NT worship service as a set ritual centered on a piece of bread being turned into literal flesh to be consumed.
As for female pastors, i am glad you agree, but requiring all pastors (with few exceptions) to have the gift of celibacy is not Scriptural and is presumptuous.
To be consistent and equitable, you would have to compare the percentage of Catholics who stayed home also, and weekly Catholics with weekly evangelicals.
But it is incredibly that one group can vote 79% for Romney - which even weekly Catholics did not match - and get the blame for the loss, when if they had voted like most Catholics them it would not have even been close.
And here on FR, there were many attempts to blame the most conservative group, because a small percentage of them were not committed enough to counteract the Catholic liberals and others.
But you can blame evangelical and conservative use of contraception (though liberal Catholic use if also very high) , as demographics changed much.
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