Thank you for your response. I believe your point was very clear; however, this isn't the teaching of traditional Protestantism. This is Catholicism. Please note this from Our Catholic Faith. Of course, perhaps you are Catholic in which case then the issue isn't an issue at all. :O)
If you want to challenge the point, tell me how faith and love can exist without the ability to choose.
Please note my rhetorical question: Was it God's intention to show to Adam what he would choose if given a choice? I am not saying Adam (and Eve) didn't have a choice. What I am saying is that Eve decision was based upon a deception-so she made the wrong choice. Adam's decision, apart from the influence of God, was motivated by Eve. And so it goes; always motivated by something other than God.
So rather than debate God’s intention for the tree, let’s debate if love can exist without choice.
Rather interesting question and quite frankly I'm tired of talking about horticulture. I would say that since God doesn't make "choices" (He shows no partiality) and God is love, then I would say yes love can exist without choice. And as noted in 1 John:
The only reason we love is because of God, which means that God must put love into our hearts to love Him back and to love others. So then that begs the question on how we can make a choice if we have no love for the Father? We must have love in order to make a choice.
I am actually Baptist more or less forever, and I really don’t care too much if it is a Catholic concept or a Protestant concept. I got the idea from mediating on God’s word. That’s not to say I totally disregard or am opposed to learning from smart people who have thought about it far more than me. It’s just on this one subject people tend to get so polarized - it’s like they read half the Bible and ignore whatever is inconvenient to their doctrinal position. So in this case I finally gave up and started thinking about it myself. So there are no doubt holes in my thinking, which is partially why I decided to post on the thread even though I realized almost everyone on the thread was talking past each other. But I also know one of the easiest way to find some holes in your thinking is to put it on the table and let others have a go at it.
So I think God makes choices, and choice is a necessity for real love to exist. I do not think God had to send Jesus to die on the cross, but that he did so because he loved us. He would have been just to send us all to hell, but he didn’t. It was a choice and it demonstrates his love.
My wife and I are committed to one another deeply, and I am well aware of her good points as well as her imperfections, and vice versa she for me. She could no doubt find another man, with more money or looks or wisdom or 100 other things, if she wanted. But she doesn’t. She chooses me, and I choose her - daily (well, except when I’m selfish :-)). Because of this relationship, we also can enjoy intimacy in the deepest meaning of marriage - fully known, but still chosen. I find it difficult to believe that anyone would argue a relationship with a blow up doll, with “perfect” features, and pre-programmed voice saying the same words would be equivalent. There is no way a blow up doll can love you, as it can make no choice to accept you in spite of flaws that are fully known. If you have had the pleasure of this sort of a relationship, I hope you will agree the measure of love is how much the spouses choose to meet each others needs verses their own. Without choice, love ceases to exist.
Assuming you still don’t agree, can you give me an example, in human relationships, of a demonstration of love without someone making a choice?
If you come to accept my position about love requiring a choice, 1 John 4:9 is easy to understand. When we see God filled with mercy and compassion even though we rejected him, we can know he loves us. If we are moved by this, and choose to accept his gift, we return the love because of the choice we exercized. If we are robots, with no choice except what he gives us by his election, we can’t love him, so as I read the verse, I see confirmation we have a free will.