Can you post anything either Dr. Stanley or I posted that wasn't supported by Scripture? Opinions are meaningless. That's why Dr. Stanley never gives a sermon without supporting Scripture and it's why I always provide Scripture to support what I post.
Next, this Levitical passage is directly out of the Mosaic Law. Recall, Exodus 19, the first of some 1500 commandments given to the Jews becomes the "Law" to which all Hebrews claim they are going to commit. Unfortunately, as we read the rest of the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings (what we call the OT), we find that they do not, cannot, keep the Law. However, they do not recognize their own dilemma. Ultimately, Jeremiah is given a prophecy that tells them, "A day is coming when no man will have to tell another 'Know the Lord', for each shall..." There is one of the many hints of a "New Covenant". Would you agree that to this point in Jeremiah, however, the "Old Covenant" is still in place? Would you also agree that the so-called "Chosen People" are Israel at this point?
Well, of course the Old Covenant was still in place at that point and the chosen people, the Jews, whom God refers to as the "apple of His eye", were and still are, Israel.
f so, then you will notice that the tithing was to the priests to care for them, since they had no property, no land, no means of making a living except for mediating the sacrifices, day in and day out. The Levites (from which we get Leviticus) were these priests and they were to collect this tithe and bring it to the "temple". Now, I trust that you no longer think there is either a temple or sacrifices performed by priests. This, interestingly, is where the Catholics see that the "priesthood" continues on and holy sanctuaries (such as "Saint" Peter's cathedral) actually house holy activities. But, as Jesus prophesied, an hour WAS COMING (but was not there yet till the shed blood) when the true worshippers shall worship in spirit and truth (and not at a place). If you use the Gospels correctly, you will notice that this is all foretelling of the coming "New Covenant". Jn 4:23ff. This is a proper use of M,M,L,J.
Yes, just like the tithe in the Old Testament involved priests, and just like salvation in the Old Testament, according to God's law, involved animal sacrifice, the tithe in the New Testament, in the fulfillment of the Old Testament law, does not involve priests but involves giving part of what God already owns back to Him in a more direct way and salvation now involves a person's faith and trust in Jesus Christ's death on the cross as payment for sin.
I am puzzled by your reference to Heb. 5 supporting the tithe. Can you be more specific?
It is a reiteration of the fact that, as I put in my post, Hebrews 5:6 states: And he says in another place, “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." So, just as Melchizedek received tithes in Genesis, Jesus receives our tithes now.
The giving Paul described is simply a "give as much as you can to help these starving people." Read the context. There is no temple, there are no priests, there is no tithing. He would, after all, tell them to tithe to where? Does Stanley hint that the "tithing" he believes in should go to his "organization" or "an organization"? Where is that part in the text?
I don't know - you tell me. Did Dr. Stanley hint that the tithing his message was about and which he backed up with Scripture should go to his church? You haven't hesitated so far to lie about the man. You tell me.
And you can also tell me where, in the Scriptures provided in Dr. Stanley's sermon outline, there were any conditions put on tithing. Can you produce the conditions which are in the Scriptures about tithing that were posted?
Now, this remark about God being "cruel", is very poignant. You have captured even the so-called "Lord's Prayer" problem. Read the entire prayer, "...for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But, if you do not forgive men, then your Father WILL NOT FORGIVE YOU." Yes, I suppose in the way you mean the question, this is cruel. But, is this your Gospel? Is this the good news you teach? Well, it is in the Sermon on the Mount found in Matt. You better do it or die. But, if it is the Law, given to the Jews, then it makes enormous sense.
But that doesn't address the issue. You accused Dr. Stanley of being cruel when God Himself that whatever a person gives, that same amount will be returned to him. Was it cruel for God to say that? And was it cruel when Jesus didn't stop the poor widow from giving money even though she was poor?
"Can you post anything either Dr. Stanley or I posted that wasn't supported by Scripture? Opinions are meaningless. That's why Dr. Stanley never gives a sermon without supporting Scripture and it's why I always provide Scripture to support what I post."
My FRiend, I thought I did just that. However, that is my opinion and evidently you don't accept opinions. But, wait, isn't that just your opinion? If not, please give me evidence from Scripture that we should accept Stanley's opinions about what Scripture is saying. We might end up going around and around here.
Like smvoice, I too cannot find any passage where the "tithe" continues while we await the final curtain. Especially, when non-jewish folks are involved. As smvoice noted, to take the giving for the starving Jerusalemites as "evidence" that the tithe is continuing (while all other Mosaic Law demands have stopped) is a stretch. I would add that it is disingenuous.
You may believe that Stanley is painting this giving matter as all about giving to anyone in need, but this is simply not the case. Stanley is one of the main recipients of this "tithing" teaching. This very moment I am looking at a stack of computerized "giving" receipts his "ministry" cranks out for little old ladies who hardly have a dime. Stanley receives $ 300,000 per year from "IN TOUCH" PLUS his salary (undisclosed) from FBC of Atlanta. Now, if he is the "needy" believers referred to, somebody pinch me. I want to be that needy!
And, now that you have clarified the Heb. 5 connection, I must point out that you have violated your own requirement here. You have expressed an opinion that you can get from Jesus is a priest according to the order of Melchizadek to "therefore tithing continues". This is not said by the writer, and my FRiend, you do not back this up. The passage is simply referring to the fact that M came out of nowhere and was never removed, unlike the Chief Priests of Israel, ruling for one year. They, as Paul wrote, had to make sacrifices for themselves before they could help others. Not so with Jesus. He stands forever, clean enough to be the once, for all sacrifice. A perfect High Priest.
The passage is entirely about not needing additional priests, because we have Jesus. Please read the text. Don't allow Stanley to spin this into a "tithing" message. We won't let you do it here. You specifically said, "NO OPINIONS". And, the text does not support any spurious claims of tithing.
"You accused Dr. Stanley of being cruel..."
No, let me be perfectly clear. Stanley IS CRUEL. I am not accusing him of being cruel. He said that, if a believer has physical need in their lives, that need intimates that they ought to examine what is going on. That is an undisguised accusation that sin is the cause of their need. Such a view is a blasphemous, cruel, monstrous, hateful, utterly self-aggrandizing, self-righteous, tip-off that the person speaking has very little understanding of the Scriptures. Stanley is a rich man who is saying in no uncertain terms that those believers over the centuries starved to death, dying penniless, murdered for their faith, were less than him. Read his words GVNIC, this is demonic. Stanley is in the same cultic mindset as Joyce Meyers, Osteen, Warren, et al. He is peddling a health/wealth "gospel".