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To: SoothingDave
No, I guess not. But that might explain the level of hatred against Mormons for so long, and even here on Free Republic. It might also have been a contributing factor as to why it was legal and rather popular to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri for so long.

Mark

41 posted on 02/07/2012 3:15:20 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: MarkL

Probably. The plural marriage didn’t help either.


44 posted on 02/07/2012 3:23:15 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: MarkL; Zakeet; reaganaut; SoothingDave
It might also have been a contributing factor as to why it was legal and rather popular to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri for so long.

Mark, you flunked American history in high school & college, eh? (Or do you just take a few tidbits @ face value & then never check under the hood?)

There's usually only two periods designated as including hostilities in Missouri:
1833 Jackson Co. MO
1838 Davis & Carroll Co., MO

So, FIRST of all, you're talking about just three Missouri counties (NOT the entire state).

Q1 What about 1833?: In the middle of 1833 in Jackson County, Missouri...Mormons had armed men...ranges have varied from whom you listen to from tens to hundreds...up to 400 armed Mormons. Source: Kansas City Daily Journal, April 24, 1881
Result from Nov. 4, 1833 conflict: TWO died (one a Mormon)

After that, the Mormons had 58 more months of peace in Missouri.

Q2 What about 1838?: Jackson Co. people, along with those representing Bay Co., then got involved in backing some hot-heads in Davis & Carroll Counties in Sept. 1838...by October 1838 fighting & killing occurred on BOTH sides, with property losses being less than what Lds later exaggerated.

I'm not justifying what some Missourians did in 1838; things happened on both sides:
(a): See, for example, the first entry at: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre In article, it explains how the Mormons love to cite Jacob Haun (real name was spelled Jacob Hawn with a "w"), who was the owner of the Hawn's Mill. But Jacob Hawn was never a Mormon...(In that article, a historian discusses why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons. "I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons. So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all. [Rewrite the history books]
(b) From the above-linked article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, the historian explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history." Well, I would hope that historians would present history in a more balanced way. What's NOT mentioned in that article is that 12 days before this attack:
On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.
* 6 days before this attack: • On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons. Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons

You can see how "lopsided" Mormon historians tend to present history!

I guess per your way of "presenting the 'facts'" -- that 'twas "legal & popular" for Mormons to kill Missouri militia in 1838 and another individual in 1833, eh?

BTW...beyond the above, Mormons overdramatize how long these hostilities lasted in Missouri:
* 'Twas about 100 days in Jackson Co late spring/early Summer & early fall of '33;
* Another month or so-- maybe 40-45 days in Sept/Oct 1838 -- violence all occurring in Oct.
* Less than 5 months actual real time, all told.

That's about 5% of the time they resided there! Between Fall, 1830 and September, 1838, the Mormons were either well-treated or not bothered by their Missouri neighbors for 8 yrs MINUS that 100-day series of events prompted by less than 50 people in one county.

So much for your lame blaming of the entire populace the actions of a very small minority!

46 posted on 02/07/2012 3:38:39 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: MarkL
But that might explain the level of hatred against Mormons for so long, and even here on Free Republic.

Yup!

That HATRED is REALLY shown in reply #24; isn't it!!!

69 posted on 02/08/2012 3:43:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MarkL
It might also have been a contributing factor as to why it was legal and rather popular to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri for so long.

But them SHOW ME folks were NOT slick enough to track down and KILL them wily RLDS Mormons; who ended up with the PROPERTY the fearfull followerws of BY left behind!

70 posted on 02/08/2012 3:45:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MarkL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement


71 posted on 02/08/2012 3:46:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MarkL
JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

72 posted on 02/08/2012 3:47:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MarkL; SoothingDave

I feel compelled to correct a couple of your impressions/statements.

I’ve not seen any here on FR state they “hate” individual mormons.

I don’t like their theology and doctrine, but that doesn’t mean I hate “them”.

Mormons did a really good job of instigating the fine folks of MO into retaliating and when they started getting their collective butts handed to them, did what all good liberals do, complain and turn it into a PR coup. Claiming they were the ones being “persecuted” simply for being mormons.


96 posted on 02/08/2012 9:29:19 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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