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Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]
i4m.com (Rethinking Mormonism) ^

Posted on 12/11/2011 7:30:58 AM PST by Colofornian

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To: Jack Hydrazine; reaganaut
What happened in April of 1990 to have these death oaths rescinded?

Very good question.

Multiple reasons actually (which are related to the multiple changes)...reasons that happened both almost simultaneously as well as sequentially.

#1...In the 1970s, the Lds upticked their number of converts from a Christian background:
Since most Mormon converts in the 1970's and 1980's were coming from a Christian background, it was becoming apparent to LDS leaders in the 1980's that ridiculing the Protestant minister in the temple film was offensive to many new converts. There were even some reports of converts attending the temple once, and vowing to never return -- sometimes even refusing to return to any LDS meetings.
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

What was happening is that during temple endowments (where Mormons learn the secret handshakes that get them into their Heaven), Protestant ministers were portrayed as ‘hirelings of Satan.’ So this was obviously provocative; offensive to say the least.

#2...Whether there was a direct linkage or not, temple attendance was down into the mid-to-late 1980s.

#3..."In 1987, David John Buerger (an active but liberal Mormon), published an article in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, a liberal Mormon publication which is not controlled by the LDS church. In the article, Buerger suggested that LDS church leaders needed to seriously consider making changes in the temple endowment ceremony to counter declining rates of attendance."
Source:
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

#4..."Although possibly just a coincidence, the Mormon Church issued a survey to about 3,400 members in Canada and the U.S. to determine members' opinions concerning temple work and various other topics only a few months after the 1987 Buerger article. Soon after the 1988 survey, plans were underway to change the endowment ceremony again (the ceremony had been modified many times since its introduction in Nauvoo, Illinois in the early 1840's)."
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

So, besides the Protestant-ministers-as-hirelings offensive portion removed, what were the other four primary changes?

a. All penalties (and gestures like throat slashing, chest slashing and bowel slashing) were eliminated.

Obviously, 'twas overboard; not very "P.R." oriented; too violent in an increasingly violent late 1980s culture; and too obviously both pagan and Masonic riddled.

b. The strange words "Pay Lay Ale" (meaning "Oh God hear the words of my mouth") were eliminated. Ed Decker says the actual direct meaning of the Hebrew words ("Pele Heylel") is "Marvelous Lucifer"
Source: Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple? [The OTHER World Series]

c. Women's promise to be obedient to husbands was modified.

Ya gotta remember the full emergence of the feminist movement then.

d. The intimate position at the veil (foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand on shoulder and mouth to ear) was eliminated.

Yup. I'm sure potential "sexual harassment" issues figured into this change.

Ya just gotta wonder: Did God change his mind about pagan-like rituals? Masonic-riddled rituals?

I know some Web sites exist recording all the ritual changes made periodically. This one did ... but is now defunct: http://www.lds-temple.org/

21 posted on 12/11/2011 12:20:58 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: firebasecody
Simple. The Mormon church has just claimed this week that it isn't "insular" or "secretive."

Stuff like this shows otherwise.

22 posted on 12/11/2011 12:26:30 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Saundra Duffy; svcw
I wonder if Saundra has ever spoken these death oaths? She’ll probably deny it.

What year did you become a Mormon, Saundra?

23 posted on 12/11/2011 12:36:35 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

What if you work your way up into the Mormon church, get your TR, and then start producing YouTube videos of the secrets? What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?


24 posted on 12/11/2011 12:59:11 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian
I have a challenge for you. Instead of stressing over The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, why not try to find out what “secrets” are kept in the bowels of the Vatican. That should keep you occupied for quite some time and you can take a rest from your incessant Morman bashing.
25 posted on 12/11/2011 1:46:34 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

“What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?”

Our Temples are sacred holy places.


26 posted on 12/11/2011 1:51:37 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine

Nope. The lds “temples” are secret.
Sandy are you allowed in?


27 posted on 12/11/2011 1:53:46 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

Kinda reminds me of a Shiner who told me in one breath the Freemasons aren’t a secret organization. Then in the next breath he related how he went to Egypt with his Freemason brothers and conducted secret rituals in their rooms. I wanted to burst out laughing.

So Mormonism is just like that - A non-secret organization with secrets that if revealed will put you on double secret probation!


28 posted on 12/11/2011 3:47:04 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine
Thank you for "answering" with a non-answer. Actually, you're "answer" tells Jack and myself that you were a Mormon by at least April, 1990.

Jack, to answer then your wonderment from post #16 the answer is a probable "yes."

29 posted on 12/11/2011 3:53:19 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
double secret probation ........... Animal House Pictures, Images and Photos
30 posted on 12/11/2011 4:00:52 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

Romans 1 is the best answer to the cultic secrecy that is employed by Mormons and others.

Read it, and the mumbo-jumbo of heretical sects will appear CLEARLY WRONG in the view of any Biblical Christian.


31 posted on 12/11/2011 4:18:28 PM PST by Scanian
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To: Colofornian

INTREP: They do not want to reveal that Joseph Smith lifted the secret ceremonies from the Masons!


32 posted on 12/11/2011 4:20:48 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: Scanian
When Jesus was Crucified the Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, to open the temple that all may enter. No more secrets.
Thanks.
33 posted on 12/11/2011 4:21:30 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Vendome

Why should the Mormon secrecy bother Evangelicals considering that so many Evangelicals are Freemasons?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/august/7.18.html


34 posted on 12/11/2011 4:22:35 PM PST by rzman21
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To: svcw

When the tabernacle was first established the Holy place could only be approached by certain ones at certain times.

When the veil of the temple was rent in twain certain mysteries were also meant to be unveiled and the unapproachableness (my word) was done away with.


35 posted on 12/11/2011 4:26:36 PM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: rzman21

What’s an Evangelical?


36 posted on 12/11/2011 4:32:09 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: rzman21

I’m a Mason. doesn’t bother me a bit. Just pointing out the obvious from an informed position.


37 posted on 12/11/2011 4:41:59 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Our Temples are sacred holy places.

LOL, full of furniture that looks like it from the foyer of a fancy hotel with a cheap movie to watch.

Restored - ha. Not a single "temple" found in first century excavations or archaeology like a modern mormon temple. Not a restoration of first century Christianity, but a restoration of the same old satanic lies about becoming 'gods'.

38 posted on 12/11/2011 5:57:44 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Colofornian

Have any Mormons ever be killed for giving away the secrets?


39 posted on 12/11/2011 6:06:53 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian; Jack Hydrazine

Another reason for the changes that isn’t often mentioned was the “Pace Memo” relating to the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare of the early 1990’s. After a 30 month investigation by the Utah AG’s office there was no evidence found. However, about the same time as the changes, Glenn Pace (an LDS General Authority) issued an internal LDS memo that sugguests that the victims had flashbacks when going through the LDS endowment ceremony for the first time which is in part what led to the changes.

The LDS endowment is hyped (even on this thread) as being sacred, but reality is it is silly. Members are constantly told that the temple is the most sacred and most spiritual rituals they will go through - they are primed for this ‘very spiritual experience’, yet most ex-mos admit that their first reaction going through for the first time was “WTH????”.

Here are some links, one to the text of the LDS temple ceremonies now with links to historical ones, one about the Pace Memo written while the AG investigation was just starting (and a huge topic of the news in Utah at the time), and several about peoples reaction to the LDS endowment ceremony.

http://ldsendowment.org/

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon243.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon285.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon523.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon564.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon033.htm


40 posted on 12/11/2011 6:30:34 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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