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To: don-o
So were they saved before they were baptized? How about the thief on the cross?

If we must be baptized to be saved it would be works based. Salvation is not based on what we do but on what Christ did. Scripture over and over again shows that we do not perform works to be saved, but that we will perform works if we are saved. Baptism is not the cause of being saved but a response to being saved. The question then is this If you are saved, and you know what baptism means and that it was commanded by Christ, why would you not be baptized?

A person does not become baptized to be saved, but a person is saved and is therefore baptized.

Even two of the early Christian writers indicate that the verses you refer to are not actually found in the early manuscripts. Eusebius (Quaestiones ad Marinum I) says that they are not in "accurate" copies of Mark and are missing from "almost all" manuscripts; Jerome (Epistle CXX.3, ad Hedibiam) testifies that almost all Greek manuscripts of his time lack vss. 9-20.

So even the Catholic Church would have to admit that the verses of Mark 16:9-20 should not be used for doctrine.

88 posted on 11/25/2011 7:19:56 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
So do we have a trustworthy Bible or not? Interesting reference to "the early Christian writers". Be careful going there. There be a lot of writings that will smash the man made sola doctrines.

Especially stay away from Ignatius of Antioch. That "medicine of immprtality" talk and the instructions regarding the Bishops might rock our world as it did mine.

89 posted on 11/25/2011 7:31:09 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: CynicalBear
How about the thief on the cross?

Gee! I do not think hanging on the cross made it easy to be baptised. He had what was called baptism of desire. Christ then recognized his humble request.

You are fully saved when your spirit from your body walks pass the pearly gates and you know you are pass them from yards away. So you can look back and make sure. Where the devil can never tempt you again. But in the mean time you will be tempted till then which means your not completely done with your journey in the Lord.

92 posted on 11/25/2011 8:08:04 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass.)
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To: CynicalBear
Acts 2:

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

He also says "save yourselves". Thats an action on our part.

Peter wastes his time with baptism? I do not think so.

94 posted on 11/25/2011 8:14:22 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass.)
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