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To: boatbums

Sheesh, talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Baptism does and doesn’t save us all at the same time.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2E.HTM

978 “When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism that cleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them.... Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil “521

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The Catholic church teaches that water baptism actually effects salvation.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3H.HTM

1215 This sacrament is also called “the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit,” for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one “can enter the kingdom of God.”7

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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3M.HTM

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.”62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,”63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.


114 posted on 11/04/2011 9:30:48 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
>>Sheesh, talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth. Baptism does and doesn’t save us all at the same time.<<

We seem to run into that situation a lot don’t we?

128 posted on 11/04/2011 9:40:48 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: metmom
I know!

62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

Strange! God says he will be found by all who diligently seek him. He is a "rewarder of them" who do so. It is God's will that ALL men come to the knowledge of the truth, so according to the CCC, God let's some "slide" on this? What they are really saying here is if somebody is a "good" person but doesn't seek the truth of Jesus Christ, God will let them be saved? Sounds like missionaries should stop trying to preach the gospel to every creature and just let them be the best they can be on their own without having to accept OR reject Christ. Almost like God doesn't care if they hear the gospel or not.

152 posted on 11/04/2011 10:09:46 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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